FFXIV story/lore thread

[Qeomash]

What I hope they do for the last set of coil:

Spoiler: show

Start in Eastern Thanalan (Burning Wall), end up fighting a tempered Louisoix in some form at the end. But you are, of course, too late and Bahamut is reassembled anyway. It throws you out in Northern Thanalan again as he escapes. Unlocks a DF Trial for Bahamut.

[Rocl]

Here's the question (obvious T9+ spoilers)

Spoiler: show

Is it a tempered Louisoix? I don't think it's fair to call Nael Deus Darnus a tempered Nael van Darnus. Bahamut reassembled a body for Nael after he died and greatly altered his mind. Who's to say Louisoix didn't die while trying to reseal Bahamut and Bahamut plucked whatever makes a person alive (their soul?) from returning to the Lifestream and recreated a body for Louisoix? (apparently a much better copy than Nael's; perhaps because Bahamut was able to actually see/interact with Louisoix in person as opposed via Dalamud thought transmission he had with Nael)

tl;dr Nael van Darnus died in Rivenroad. Louisoix died at Carteneau. Both of them serving Bahamut are 'simulacrums' (to use Alisaie's word choice) made with their dying life-essence which was denied it's return to Hydaelyn. That's my theory anyways. The last little bit of Nael's consciousness resurfaces when Bahamut relinquishes control (assuming this is what happens) but the simulacrum was going to die regardless w/o it's God's support.

[Evane]

Something interesting I found on the OF.
The binding coils of Bahamut.

Spoiler: show

bind (bīnd)
v. bound (bound), bind·ing, binds
v.tr.
1. To tie or secure, as with a rope or cord.
2. To fasten or wrap by encircling, as with a belt or ribbon.
3. To bandage: bound up their wounds.
4. To become compact or solid; cohere.

Never occurred to me.

[Oreth]

Appreciate all the info and deep diving people do on the lore. Shamelessly i often skip through dialogue / cs to get on with progression but much prefer to watch CS / read dialogue in a sequence or pick it all up in threads like this.

When you guys are talking about Tempered are you referring to NPCs / Mobs / Enemies that are under the control of a primal? If that is the correct assumption how are they doing this? Is it all tied to the Aether?

[Rocl]

Tempered refers to a person who's soul is claimed by a Primal. Tempered also specifically refers to those claimed by Ifrit (Leviathan's subjects are called Drowned, for example). No idea why the game prefers 'Tempered' to the other sayings, but it's their go-to; probably has to do with us first experiencing Ifrit taking the souls of the Immortal Flames in the early MSQ.

We're not exactly sure how the mechanism works; we know Ifrit breathes some kind of blue flame to claim his subjects and Garuda uses a vortex. Almost all of the beastmen you fight in the field are also Tempered. Beastmen with free will include the Sylphs of Little Solace and the Brotherhood of Ash. The 789th Order Dig also don't appeared to be Tempered, nor does Novv's Clutch but I'm not willing to say for certain yet. It's important to note of those four beastmen, all of them still believe the Primal is a god. The Brotherhood of Ash look down on the Flamefangs/what's left of the Amalj'aa for summoning Ifrit and see it as an act of weakness, they have gained strength through shortcuts and not hard work/dedication as is the Amaljic way. The Little Solace Sylphs still have some form of reverence for Ramuh but simply know of the side effects of summoning which they detest. (In fact the Sylphs in 1.0 warned us a long time ago about the dangers of summoning, so it couldn't have been an easy choice for them to finally summon Ramuh against the Garlean aggressors.) The 789th Dig doesn't mention Titan much if at all, and Novv's clutch still reveres/respects Leviathan but still believes that diplomacy is the way to win the Lominsans over, not brute strength. This is likely because they're well aware that to take Saspa proper they'd have to wage war on land to claim, well, land and they're ill-adapted to such things. (This is mostly speculation because I haven't gotten super far into Sahagin dailies yet)

Summoning a primal also tempers all of those involved in the summoning. This fact was more or less exploited by the Ascians who taught the beastmen to summon, as once you summon a Primal, you're pretty much gonna keep trying to summon a Primal. A tempered person exists only to serve their Primal. There is no none cure. In 1.0 there was some indication it was curable, but since 2.0 it has been stated that the only way to cure a Tempered individual is to kill them. As Primals subsist on prayer and are enhanced by aetherial sacrifice letting the Tempered live poses a threat. Not only will they attempt to bring their Primal forth from the aether, but their very being ensures that the Primal survives. After all, a Primal's own being is shaped by their follower's thoughts/prayers/what have you. It stands to reason if no person left alive worshiped the Primal, s/he would cease to be.

Our only exception to this rule so far is Odin. We also know the dragons of Dravania worship a Primal, but we're not certain if it is Bahamut (but we also know how Bahamut has survived in Dalamud for millenia). Another interesting note is Dragons themselves can create thralls and warp the minds of people much like Primals. Whether or not this is a side effect of the Dravanian Horde forcing them into servitude of their Primal or a power unique to dragons or even just the product of weak-willed men we don't know.

[Kaslo]

Tempered refers to a person who's soul is claimed by a Primal. Tempered also specifically refers to those claimed by Ifrit (Leviathan's subjects are called Drowned, for example). No idea why the game prefers 'Tempered' to the other sayings, but it's their go-to; probably has to do with us first experiencing Ifrit taking the souls of the Immortal Flames in the early MSQ.

There are specifically titled "Tempered" Sylphs in a Shroud FATE, so it is used with other tribes. But yeah with player models only Ifrit seems to use "tempered" but only Ifrit and Levi seem to have tempered player models anyways.

[Oreth]

Interesting stuff thanks for explaining... From our perspective then in terms of praying / gods / primals where do we fit on that ladder in relation to the 12? All the stuff we went through at the end of 1.0 to keep Bahamut / Dalamud from reach & destroying Eorzea does the game make any distinction that what we tried to do was any different? Probably a pretty stupid question forged out of my stupidity and/or laziness to fully understand that point of the story but id be more curious if there is any correlation to what we did and what they are doing... Probably more that they are gods and the others are primals...

[Rocl]

There are specifically titled "Tempered" Sylphs in a Shroud FATE, so it is used with other tribes. But yeah with player models only Ifrit seems to use "tempered" but only Ifrit and Levi seem to have tempered player models anyways.

Yeah, but it's just weird to me that they go out of the way to explain that Tempered is specifically for Ifrit and Drowned are specifically for Leviathan. Do you remember if the FATE has a capital Tempered or a lowercase?

Interesting stuff thanks for explaining... From our perspective then in terms of praying / gods / primals where do we fit on that ladder in relation to the 12? All the stuff we went through at the end of 1.0 to keep Bahamut / Dalamud from reach & destroying Eorzea does the game make any distinction that what we tried to do was any different? Probably a pretty stupid question forged out of my stupidity and/or laziness to fully understand that point of the story but id be more curious if there is any correlation to what we did and what they are doing... Probably more that they are gods and the others are primals...

orz man you're killing me. It's almost like that time the guy didn't realize the Keeper of the Lake was a thing until like 2.15 when it's been in the game since 1.0 !

It is strongly implied praying to the Twelve is not a whole lot different than praying to a Primal. Both the Twelve and Primals need a substantial amount of aether and prayer to manifest themselves in the physical realm. Louisoix warns us in 1.0 that when we're planning on summoning the Twelve it is the same trick as summoning a Primal, however he makes the distinction that we are summoning their power and not their being. This might be a way to use less of the land's aether or simply help prevent him from being tempered by the Twelve. Gaius actually mocks us and our reverence for the Twelve quite often, and if these nodes pop soon I'll quote his direct speech in Praetorium regarding it, but it's something like: "Why don't you summon your gods again like you did at Carteneau? Or are you afraid becoming that which you fight against?" (i.e. the Primals)

Basically the game says we attempted the same thing in principle but slightly different in execution. During the MSQ Lahabrea attempts to goad the Ala Mhigan refugees in Southern Thanalan into summoning Rhalgr (one of the Twelve, and Ala Mhigo's patron deity), lending more support that the Twelve aren't that much different than Primals.

[Kaslo]

Yeah, but it's just weird to me that they go out of the way to explain that Tempered is specifically for Ifrit and Drowned are specifically for Leviathan. Do you remember if the FATE has a capital Tempered or a lowercase?

Capital: http://xivdb.com/?monster/538/tempered-sylph

[Rocl]

All monster names begin with a capital letter, meant the FATE description itself
http://xivdb.com/?fate/213/Thunderstruck

thankfully that link gave me the level for the FATE though!

Sylphs tempered in the levin-light of the primal Ramuh have descended into Little Solace to abduct their untempered brethren. Protect the innocent by delivering lightning-swift justice to the perpetrators.

Lowercase T, so I suspect 'Tempered' is Ifrit and 'tempered' is everyone else.

[Niiro]

Tempered makes sense for Ifrit in the sense of tempering steel in a furnace, drowned fits with Levi because duh, my guess is they just use "tempered" for the other primals because they couldn't think of better thematic phrases.

They probably just defaulted to "tempered" because it was the first phrase used and the word generally doesn't make you think of fire as much as it does forging or altering something by force.

They should have called those tempered by Titan "stoned" tho.

[Kaslo]

Sylphs tempered in the levin-light of the primal Ramuh have descended into Little Solace to abduct their untempered brethren. Protect the innocent by delivering lightning-swift justice to the perpetrators.

http://xivdb.com/?fate/213/Thunderstruck

[Oreth]

Thanks Rocl.. Figured as much but appreciate the explanation. I actually spent well over an hour reading through most of this thread a good while ago but forget half the important stuff!

[Rocl]

Gaius is a little more overt than I remembered about the Twelve being the same as Primals.

In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon gods to fight in their stead─though your comrades only rarely respond in kind. Which is strange, is it not? Are the “Twelve” otherwise engaged? I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them your guardians, why do you not repeat the trick that served you so well at Carteneau, and call them down?
They will answer─so long as you lavish them with crystals and gorge them on aether. Your gods are no different from those of the beasts─eikons every one. Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzea's faith is bleeding the land dry. Nor is this unknown to your masters. Which prompts the question: why do they cling to these false deities? What drives even men of learning─even the great Louisoix─to grovel at their feet?

I mean, yeah, you should always believe an Imperial with great skepticism but we're given as much information to believe most of what he says here.

"Eikon" being a Garlean term for Primal which in itself is supposed to harbor very negative connotations.

[Rocl]

Sudden realization that I'm now going to nitpick and fret over:

The final boss in Halatali (Hard) is Mumuepo The Beholden.

Mumuepo was the THM guildmaster(?) in 1.0; and had a direct (albeit small) role in the original opening questline (though I suppose it was in the Echo, so he was the THM guildmaster some 15+ years ago now)

Other combatants include:
Franz the Fair
Langloisiert the Lionheart
U'linbho the Sand Devil
Silent Moss the Solemn

Franz, at least, is referenced before too:

A notice singing the praises of one Franz the Fair─an extremely popular gladiator, as can be noted by the excessive use of exclamation marks.

I also believe he's the NPC standing outside of the Coliseum in between the zoneline to Western Thanalan and the Steps of Thal. Though he's unnamed and you can't talk to him, this is strengthened by the fact the NPC Jenet next to him remarks that her "beloved Franz" is fighting today while cheering on the unnamed Hyur in coliseum galerus on.

[Indomitable Will]

Our only exception to this rule so far is Odin

wasn't there also some kind of back story for odin that kind of explained why he could roam the land without being summoned, like he was a man once, and earned the right to become a god, but still roams the lower realm, or something to that effeect?

[Rocl]

Absolutely nothing concrete. Our only real backstory on Odin is he was sealed by the Allagans (specifically one named Urth), roamed the land in the days of the Allagan and killed a Summoner named Wiyu.

Unrelated, but I can now say with certainty that the Kobold quests have absolutely nothing-- zero, nada, nothing to do with Titan nor mention Titan at all.

[Indomitable Will]

I really hope they add some backstory there...Odin was always my favorite ff lore character...my personal theory on him is that he was some type of very powerful/magical warrior, ^as you said killed someone he shouldn't have, was sealed and essentially made immortal and forced to forever roam the land, possibly given strength by belief in him by the various peoples of eorzea (e.g: the people worship the 12, the beastmen worship the primals, but both groups know of and believe that odin is real (example of that would be that there are 1000 people at every odin event, so at the very least the adventurers believe in him lol), so it lends him the aethereal strength to exist)

[Damane]

I really hope they add some backstory there...Odin was always my favorite ff lore character...my personal theory on him is that he was some type of very powerful/magical warrior, ^as you said killed someone he shouldn't have, was sealed and essentially made immortal and forced to forever roam the land, possibly given strength by belief in him by the various peoples of eorzea (e.g: the people worship the 12, the beastmen worship the primals, but both groups know of and believe that odin is real (example of that would be that there are 1000 people at every odin event, so at the very least the adventurers believe in him lol), so it lends him the aethereal strength to exist)

god no we had enough of odin in 11 he was basicly responsible for all the shit in like wait... original cop toau wotg (maybe even adoulin lol). the only expansion haveing nothing to do with odin was rotz. i had too much of odin for a lifetime

[OWS_Tonx]

god no we had enough of odin in 11 he was basicly responsible for all the shit in like wait... original cop toau wotg (maybe even adoulin lol). the only expansion haveing nothing to do with odin was rotz. i had too much of odin for a lifetime

Really? I was terrible about FFXI lore because I was like 13 and didn't give a shit and button mashed most of the cutscenes.