FFXIV story/lore thread

[Kaixin]

T12 spoilers

Spoiler: show

Roses are red, dragons are from Meracydia. Twintania and the scourges are captured Meracydian dragons, Bahamut is the Meracydian dragon primal. I WAS RIGHT! Suck it Raldo/Rocl. Interested to see if Meracydian dragons are related to Dravanians.

[Vuitton]

The way they described Ishgard as a city that was divided in two parts, the lower half where the common folk reside, and the upper part where the nobles live made me think of something. It's awfully similar to the way Aht Urghan Whitegate and Al Zahbi were conceived.

It's also very Jeuno. You had the Ru'Lude Gardens (the nice rich part of the city, very white and very clean) and then you had the rest of Jeuno (dark gray, dingy). Ishgard also looks very similar to Jeuno, even having the long bridge.

[Kirbyprime]

An uneducated question, since I didn't really read the lore much. But why is Bahamut so much stronger than other primals? What makes him an elder primal? ( what does that even mean?! ) From what I read it seems he's just a primal that was summoned by dragons.

[Rocl]

afaik Elder Primal is almost always just an indication of age. Records of Bahamut and Odin go all the way back to the Allag Empire. As for why Bahamut is stronger, it's dependent on the amount of prayer/aether/crystals he consumes and answered during the Final Coil.

Bahamut's corporeal form has existed for thousands of years, as has Odin's. They were both imprisoned and prevented from dying/returning to the land. This is what makes them 'Elder'

[Kaixin]

Elder means old? What a country!

[Vuitton]

Elder means old? What a country!

It also means "of higher rank; senior." So, that is where the confusion was stemming from.

[Obsidian]

afaik Elder Primal is almost always just an indication of age. Records of Bahamut and Odin go all the way back to the Allag Empire. As for why Bahamut is stronger, it's dependent on the amount of prayer/aether/crystals he consumes and answered during the Final Coil.

Bahamut's corporeal form has existed for thousands of years, as has Odin's. They were both imprisoned and prevented from dying/returning to the land. This is what makes them 'Elder'

Do we know how/why Odin seems to be able to maintain his form indefinitely?

[miokomioko]

Do we know how/why Odin seems to be able to maintain his form indefinitely?

Calling it: Repeatedly summoned by (now) undead Gelmorrans.

[Stef]

It's also very Jeuno. You had the Ru'Lude Gardens (the nice rich part of the city, very white and very clean) and then you had the rest of Jeuno (dark gray, dingy). Ishgard also looks very similar to Jeuno, even having the long bridge.

You're right. To some extent that's true. Wealth inequality existed in all of the nation-states in FFXI as well, as it does in Ul'Dah in FFXIV. But it was never really focused on all too much in Jeuno either in the story or in side quests. Ru'lude Gardens was mainly pristine because that's where the embassies were; it was the seat of government.

I find the parallels with Al Zahbi to be more striking because the disparity between the poor, besieged part of the city and the noble part was much more pronounced in quests and the story missions. This was a city that was constantly under siege and the people felt it. Jeuno was never really under direct siege while we could visit it. Yoshi-P made a point to say that the lower parts of the Ishgard were battered, broken and battle-weary on top of being poor and shunned. Not to mention the other narrative similarities between Ishgard and Al Zahbi, like the fact that they both refused to assist the outside world (Aht Urghan during the Crystal War, and Ishgard during the Garlean invasion), their unique religious views, and their ongoing, all-out war with beast tribes.

But oh well, it's just something that struck me, I guess. I doubt that Aht Urghan had much of an influence on the Ishgard story, but the similarities just made me think of the possibilities of FATE-based Besieged Can't wait to find out more!

EDIT: Oh god, now that I'm thinking about FFXI's story... the Eastern parts of the Aht Urghan empire were ravaged by war with the Far East, which itself was beset by the encroaching emptiness. The same emptiness was what caused the geographical anomalies in Cape Riverne. Floating landmasses, piecess of the land being sucked up by some mysterious dark energy, airship battles, omega weapon, an organisation of hooded people with unique powers involved in the summoning of a dark entity diametrically opposed to the Mother Crystal, war in the East, a Far Eastern emissary with exotic combat training... Heavensward is CoP all over again! Samurai confirmed!

Bahamut: All those who traverse the endless sea of clouds! All those who bear the shadowless sun as they cross the skies! Winged brothers and sisters, hear my call! It is I, Bahamut, king of the wyrms!

Bahamut: Come and gather here before me! The time has come for the fulfillment of the ancient pact!

Ulmia: I've never seen so many dragons...

Tenzen: Not dragons...wyrms.
Their king, Bahamut, has called upon his minions.

Tenzen: And now they gather from all parts of the world to prepare for a war...a war to protect the mothercrystals and Vana'diel!

Spoiler: show

Ishgard is controlled by the Ascians
The Ascians want to summon Zodiark and destroy the mothercrystal
The mothercrystal is protected by the dragons
Ancient dragons are awakened by Bahamut from within the shards of Dalamud (or maybe by Midgardsormr) and join the Dravanian horde in defense against the Ascians
Dragons turn out to be good (well, on the side of the mothercrystal at least, they still want to kill us, as Bahamut did in FFXI), the mount we're getting a model of in the Collector's Edition will be a spoiler alluding to this, we fight the Ascians and dragons in the sea of clouds

(only partly joking)

[Niiro]

After Iceheart/Shiva's appearance I would really love to see a major turnaround in the story tone.

We don't quite know her deal yet but it would be awesome if the "she" and "her" in the Shiva theme referred to Hydaelyn rather than Shiva.

Would be very interesting for her to have the Echo but rebel against Hydaelyn's ways of doing things and possibly even being in the right about it (people HAVE posited the theory that the PC is "tempered" by Hydaelyn in a way).

Almost definitely not the way it is but I can hope, I just absolutely hate the whole Hydaelyn bullshit of being a completely dull and uninteresting omni-benevolent being with the Ascians all black-clad and evil as the genre equivalent of fucking Snidely Whiplash.

[Kaixin]

ffxiv is not ffxi
ffxiv is not ffxi
ffxiv is not ffxi

Almost definitely not the way it is but I can hope, I just absolutely hate the whole Hydaelyn bullshit of being a completely dull and uninteresting omni-benevolent being with the Ascians all black-clad and evil as the genre equivalent of fucking Snidely Whiplash.

I think you can do more than hope: with ishgardian zealots,

Spoiler: show

phoenisouix's condemnation of man

, the suggestion that man is just another beastman tribe with its own primals, and ascians being named after scions of light it's pretty clear that they are going to play some more with the "are we actually the bad guys?" angle.

[Eurell]

So uh.. I'm aware this sounds absolutely ridiculous but...

What are the odds that we become/gain the powers of a primal? The last few patches have just been driving home that all you need to do to make a primal is have crystals and pray/worship someone a lot. Every single quest in this patch is just NPC after NPC telling you how goddamn amazing you are, praying for your return, etc etc. Then they throw in the little fact that Shiva was a normal person before she became a primal (unless i just completely fucking misunderstood something when i powered through the quests on day 1).

Idk, it just seems like we meet every requirement already. Maybe we'll die and get summoned back or something.

inb4 you're retarded (probably deserved haha)

[Xanthe]

Cue Soken: "WE ARE THE PRIMALS!"

[Eurell]

Cue Soken: "WE ARE THE PRIMALS!"

lost it lol

[Obsidian]

Who's to say you aren't already a Primal? You basically show up out of nowhere, you're untemperable, you have weird powers, everybody reveres you, you collect weird crystals. You step up to save the day and then somehow you disappear, only to reappear years later when the world needs you most. You perform all these Aether-intense feats and succeed with no tangible repercussions.

[Evane]

inb4 you're retarded (probably deserved haha)

Not really. King mog isn't a "primal" but had its power. No one ever heard of Phoenix yet it exists and if people know about it, I'm sure it'll be as summonable as Ifrit if crystals and prayers are there. So yea, infused with extraordinary high amount of aether, we can become a "primal."

I really think that the shiva that was summoned isn't the saint shiva the people knew. She is just the manifestation of prayers and thoughts created from aether.

Spoiler: show

Or Menphina QQ

[solracht]

The main twist of t12 and Dreams of Ice in general is the fact that we learned that primals aren't... anything (funnily enough, Koji spoiled this at fanfest). You can literally will beings into existence if you believe in them hard enough because aether or something.

Basically they went from "Moogle Mog isn't technically a Primal" in 1.0 to "Moogle Mog is the new standard for Primals" in 2.0. That, coupled with the new 2.4 summoning technique (using a mortal vessel that keeps his/her will) means you should expect anything at this point. Heavensward primals are going to be pretty crazy.

TL;DR: the Shiva that was summoned is probably just Iceheart's idea of what or who Saint Shiva was, correct.

T12

Spoiler: show

Bahamut was one of the first leaders of the Meracydians. He wasn't alive at the time of the Allagan invasion but he was "brought back to life" by dragon prayers and desperation.

Eorzea land of dreams!

[Niiro]

The Mog storyline outlined that pretty well a long time ago, I don't really consider it much of a "reveal" at this point.

[Stef]

ffxiv is not ffxi
ffxiv is not ffxi
ffxiv is not ffxi



I think you can do more than hope: with ishgardian zealots, phoenisouix's condemnation of man, the suggestion that man is just another beastman tribe with its own primals, and ascians being named after scions of light it's pretty clear that they are going to play some more with the "are we actually the bad guys?" angle.

Who said it was? I certainly didn’t. It seems I should have made it more clear either that I was joking or that in my jest I made a literary comparison. But I suppose if you’re willing to give the least charitable reading to my unhedged statements, there wasn’t much I could have done anyway. Clearly, two games in the same franchise, localized by the same people, that share at least 9 readily-identifiable plot devices should never be compared; certainly not on a forum created by and for people who played one or both of them. And to spare you the trouble of repeating a platitude three times: that was sarcasm.

Anyway… You make a good point about the Ascians. If I remember correctly, Yoshi-P received a question during the Fan Festival about whether or not we would see a Roegadyn Ascian any time soon, to which he basically answered “yes.” Maybe Ahldbhar will make an appearance and try to explain why he switched sides in the first place.

[miokomioko]

It's basically the FFX plot.

Spoiler: show

The frozen Dragon fayth were praying to summon the physical form of their legendary Blitzball star player, Bahamut. It's just become apparent that when "primals" (extremely lose term as we've discovered) are summoned, they're never a perfect recreation. They are aspected to whatever crystals are used and sometimes their gender/appearance might get skewed. It's really just the summoners' intent personified. Just like how Tidus wasn't a perfect clone of Shuyin.

Also, one of the more obvious cues to dragons actually being "good guys" is the "Dove Aevis" in Snowcloak and the "Chary Heretics" that turn into them.