FFXIV story/lore thread

[KCem]

Dunno if it's already been mentioned, but I've been doing the DRG quests since finishing the main scenario, Estinien had no idea who I was. Which leads me to believe that they simply didn't touch the older quests for the sake of leaving the individual plot lines the same.

[Ophannus]

They would never go back and retroactively fix dialogue. Too much work lol

[Rocl]

Absolutely. The Allagan Empire was during the Third Astral Era, and the founding of Ishgard was during the Sixth Astral Era. The Dragonsong War pretty much began with the founding of Ishgard, so we can place them both at approximately 1000 years ago. However, if every Astral Era is relatively the same length as the Sixth than the Allag ruled over 3000 years ago.

Actually, upon review, the Third Astral Era was approximately 5000 years ago. I apologize for any inconvenience my error may have caused.

[Kaixin]

FUCK I just submitted my paper for peer review, thanks jackass, now i'm going to be the moron who thinks the third astral era was 3000 years ago

[Twilight Sky]

Where I currently am in the story, the thing with Thancred is not suprising and is actually typical.

[Rocl]

FUCK I just submitted my paper for peer review, thanks jackass, now i'm going to be the moron who thinks the third astral era was 3000 years ago

Prepare to be the laughingstock of the Eorzean History Foundation, dummy. You should've cross-referenced with Rammbroes!!!
(PS: If you ever wondered where Rammbroes' Circle of Knowing tattoo is... it's on his scalp. I didn't realize it until this morning lol)

Where I currently am in the story, the thing with Thancred is not suprising and is actually typical.

Considering Thancred is present throughout pretty much the entire main scenario and no one has any way of knowing what part you specifically are at I have no idea what this post is meant to accomplish. On the other hand, mine is to be snarky.

Like is it Thancred gets possessed by an Ascian while attempting to research them? Is it him overworking himself to exhaustion in an attempt to live up to Louisoix's lofty ideals? Is it his lovelife with the ladies? His derringdo? His band of courters? His adoration of F'hlaminn? His arrow to the knee? His knifework? His job change from Paladin to Rogue/Ninja? His love of the ladies? His blonde hair? His claim of being a bard yet never actually singing anything? Is it the fact that out of all of the Scions he's known Minfilia the longest? Is it because out of all of the Scions he's arguably the closest to Raubahn and Nanamo? Is it the way Moenbryda has a way of emasculating him? Is it the way he can't hold his drink? Is it his black tunic? Is that's what typical? Typical fucking black tunic scum.

[Odin'sLaw]

His claim of being a bard yet never actually singing anything? .

lets be honest, 95% of bards don't sing songs

[Kaslo]

lets be honest, 95% of bards don't sing songs

lets be honest, 95% of the time bards don't need to sing songs

[Jem]

lets be honest, 95% of bards don't sing songs

Hey, sometimes I'll sing foe requiem mid-fight. Even if it's only because I want the TP tic to not run TP dead, it totally counts!

[Rocl]

lets be honest, 95% of the time bards don't need to sing songs

I can't think of a single scenario where someone wouldn't benefit from Requiem in your group!

[Niiro]

I can't think of a single scenario where someone wouldn't benefit from Requiem in your group!

Spoiler: show

Ah-HA!

[ebil]

Random thoughts/research about the latest dungeon trailer and the Ixali.

It's late and I'm posting from my phone, so apologies for being messy.

Spoiler: show

So we've seen winged Ixali in Allagan tanks, likely on the Floating Continent. This is kind of a big deal because there's an obvious setup for that in the Ixal beast tribe quests (TL;DR version from memory: according to some Ixal myths they once had wings and were able to fly, and the Ehcatl renegades want to find Ayatlan, a floating island that is their "promised land"/paradise).

Something is up with the Ixal race, Dragons, and Garuda herself and this is definitely going to play a part in Heavensward:
- it is said that Garuda fought and won (killed, and fed upon his carcass, turning her mad) against the Lord of Snakes in the distant past.
- The Ehcatl faction doesn't worship Garuda as their goddess, in fact they hate her.
- it's likely that the Ixali were once winged and able to roam the sky.
- one of the seven celestial dragons we've seen an artwork of suspiciously looks like an Ixal, horns and beak included.
- at one point the allagans got involved.

It should be noted that all Ixal names are made up from Nahuatl, a mesoamerican language.

In Nahuatl, Ehcatl is another name for a deity tradionally associated with Wind that was featured in FF8 (replacing Ramuh, eh) and whose name literally means "Feathered Serpent" (remember the aforementioned Lord of Snakes?): Quetzalcoatl.

I think the Ixali are the descendants of Quetzalcoatl, who's one of the Seven Celestial Dragons featured on the concept art, and one of the sons of Midgardsormr. At some point, the Ixali lost their wings (likely because of Allagan meddling) and most of them started to worship Garuda for some reason (Ascian meddling wouldn't seem too crazy).

[Odin'sLaw]

Random thoughts/research about the latest dungeon trailer and the Ixali.

It's late and I'm posting from my phone, so apologies for being messy.

Spoiler: show

So we've seen winged Ixali in Allagan tanks, likely on the Floating Continent. This is kind of a big deal because there's an obvious setup for that in the Ixal beast tribe quests (TL;DR version from memory: according to some Ixal myths they once had wings and were able to fly, and the Ehcatl renegades want to find Ayatlan, a floating island that is their "promised land"/paradise).

Something is up with the Ixal race, Dragons, and Garuda herself and this is definitely going to play a part in Heavensward:
- it is said that Garuda fought and won (killed, and fed upon his carcass, turning her mad) against the Lord of Snakes in the distant past.
- The Ehcatl faction doesn't worship Garuda as their goddess, in fact they hate her.
- it's likely that the Ixali were once winged and able to roam the sky.
- one of the seven celestial dragons we've seen an artwork of suspiciously looks like an Ixal, horns and beak included.
- at one point the allagans got involved.

It should be noted that all Ixal names are made up from Nahuatl, a mesoamerican language.

In Nahuatl, Ehcatl is another name for a deity tradionally associated with Wind that was featured in FF8 (replacing Ramuh, eh) and whose name literally means "Feathered Serpent" (remember the aforementioned Lord of Snakes?): Quetzalcoatl.

I think the Ixali are the descendants of Quetzalcoatl, who's one of the Seven Celestial Dragons featured on the concept art, and one of the sons of Midgardsormr. At some point, the Ixali lost their wings (likely because of Allagan meddling) and most of them started to worship Garuda for some reason (Ascian meddling wouldn't seem too crazy).

Spoiler: show

They probably started to worship her because their god died to her/because she promised to give them their wings back for doing so

[Spira]

also re Ebil's lore in spoilers

Spoiler: show

while it may be the legend that Garuda fed on some lord of snakes so she went mad... but aren't summoned primal's nature/temperament directly tied to those who summoned them? i.e Garuda is batshit crazy because Ixali are batshit crazy.

also if what im understanding is correct about primals. garuda didnt even have to actually exist to be real. all they probably had to do was make up a story that led Ixali to worship her instead, and willed her into existence

[Lokus]

Spoiler: show

Ramuh showed that a primal's temperamant doesn't have to be directly tied to their worshippers. He actively refused to do what the Slyphs wanted him to do after all.

[Niiro]

Spoiler: show

Why is everyone talking in spoilers.

I posed a similar question a while back about the nature of primals concerning their origins, about how some seem more self-determined than others.

It's possible that some primals originated as actual people that simply became the vessels for worship by their followers, sort of like how Iceheart becomes Shiva.

Who's to say that Ramuh wasn't once an old man that went all Jane Goodall on the sylphs and taught them to be civilized and they in turn told legends of him and elevated him to a godly status, leading him to return as a primal.

It would explain why he doesn't reflect their will as well as why a bunch of floating sentient plants would conceptualize their god as an old human man (a pretty chill and reasonable one at that).

Likewise, Saint Shiva was most likely a real person at some point, and Iceheart is able to become her vessel because they are of similar minds (Iceheart wants to end the Dragonsong War, Shiva had made a pact with and boned a dragon) along with having the Echo as a catalyst or something for them to be able to communicate.

[ebil]

I'm not really saying anything about Garuda because the 2.0 series drives it home that anything can basically be summoned as a "Primal" as long as you believe hard enough and have large quantities of crystals (remember Enkidu). For all we know, she might have been a person or creature who fought the Ixal progenitor at some point, or just a myth planted among the Ixali by someone else (less likely but why not, if you've ever read the Dune series there's something really similar going on). It only matters that they believe(d) in her.

Primals are myth made manifest, that much is clear, and myths can be born in a number of ways. Her myth just happens to fuel my theory/crazy rambling.

[Rocl]

I'm not posting in spoilers about videos released by SE themselves but to wit;

your ideas are sound speculation, Quetzacoatl linked to Ixali due to mesoamerican-based naming is actually a pretty good detective work
however, and i may be misremembering here, the Ehcatl don't hate Garuda-- they don't care about Garuda period. they believe that worshipping Garuda won't let them fly as they once did and decided to do it themselves via the Dezul Qualan

Allagan meddling and removing the Ixal wings seems pretty certain to me; for a while I simply believed the Ixal were crazy when they said they used to be able to fly since the game tries very hard to make you realize not all myths are real

I'm also not keen on believing Enkidu in the Hildibrand quests was a Primal (he doesn't dissipate into aether when you defeat him, for instance); what he was doesn't really matter but the elezen inspector, Briarden (sp?), someone with probably the most sense in the entire plotline, refuses to classify him as a Primal as readily as the Sultansworn chick so I will too. we dont have a clear definition of what Gilgamesh is in Eorzea or how he arrived (that I can recall) so using Enkidu is pretty shoddy imo (they explain away Ultros and Typhon as voidsent summoned by the Thaumaturge's Guild by accident, but I can't recall any real explanation of Gilgamesh--maybe i'll look into this later when i'm not fishing)

when my head isn't so fuzzy i'll post longer orz i have a FEVER AND IM GETTING DISTRACTED BY FISHING

[Seravi Edalborez]

While Enkidu is ultimately silliness, is it not basically similar to Moggle Mog being a "primal"? In the whole "myth made real" sense.

[Spira]

Spoiler: show

Ramuh showed that a primal's temperamant doesn't have to be directly tied to their worshippers. He actively refused to do what the Slyphs wanted him to do after all.

while we're on this point I wonder if its necessary to distinguish temperament from volition. like.. clearly the primals act on their own will, but say if for some reason a different beasttribe summoned Garuda, then she's supposed to be more friendly right?

While Enkidu is ultimately silliness, is it not basically similar to Moggle Mog being a "primal"? In the whole "myth made real" sense.

i'd say so. both are technically canon so it seems this is exactly what the game is trying to tell us.