FFXIV story/lore thread

[Kaslo]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3550637

But yeah. Long story short. OMG! WE’RE GETTING A LORE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!111!!!1!

[Sho]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3550637

Essentially this may be very bad or very good for the timeline I've been writing in my free time. XD

[Spira]

Anyone wants to take a stab at what they did to titsfilia?

Spoiler: show

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_m...2/c2d14f5f.jpg
(the left one obviously)

[Shaano]

Loss of walking hah. She is using aether to float c:

[Nama]

Man how much time has supposed to of passed in-game for everyones hair to get so long.

[Rocl]

Man how much time has supposed to of passed in-game for everyones hair to get so long.

Couple months, I think

[Silenka]

They have JRPG hair which basically means it defies all reason and logic.

[Ophannus]

Actually, Bahamut can totally appear again. The coils and stuff only dealt with the PRIMAL Bahamut, meaning the Primal that was summoned by the Mercydians. The REAL Bahamut could still be alive somewhere off having adventures. I don't think it was ever stated what happened to the original being named Bahamut, which was one of Midgardsmr's sons. The Primal, however, might actually have been stronger than the original (as most Primal are just extremely revered versions of ordinary people who were just famous/had exaggerated myths and legends based on them)

[BaneTheBrawler]

It is. He died. Tiamat summoned the Primal Bahamut because the Ascians told her it was a way to bring the real Bahamut back to life, and she refuses to break free from her bonds in Azys Lla because she is heartbroken/guiltridden over his loss/defamation.

[Rocl]

Together with my brood-brother Bahamut, I journeyed south to Meracydia. And together, we brought forth innumerable children into the world. We abided in peace, and all was well...until the men of Allag came, some five thousand years since. They slaughtered my children in droves, and took from me my beloved Bahamut. 'Twas then, when I had fallen into the depths of despair, that black-robed men came unto me. The Ascians. They offered to resurrect Bahamut through their dark arts, and I, in my grief, accepted─a decision which I shall regret unto my dying breath. For what they brought back was a mockery of my beloved.

That sounds pretty clearly like the Allagan killed Bahamut. Why else would Tiamat need the Ascians to resurrect him? Also we really don't know enough about Primals to say they're all based off legendary figures. Shiva, Thordan, Moggle Mog XII, Bahamut-- sure. Now explain Leviathan, Titan, Ramuh, Ifrit, Garuda, Ravana, Bismarck, Alexander, etc. Hell Phoenix was a fucking ideal.

There isn't enough information to draw a clear conclusion regarding that.

EDIT: It's explicitly stated in French that the Allagan "slaughtered my children and beloved Bahamut" and refers to the Allag as "the executioners of my beloved" (the English also says murderers of her beloved here). German is more a faithful rendition of the English in that they "butchered our children and took my Bahamut from me."

[BaneTheBrawler]

Alexander is explained by scar-touchy Mide. It's a schematic drawn up by an ancient Hydalaen DaVinci and brought to life to fulfill the Goblins' yearning for a homeland.

[Rocl]

most Primal are just extremely revered versions of ordinary people who were just famous/had exaggerated myths and legends based on them

This is what I was asking Orphannus to explain Alexander in terms of; my umbrage was based on "Primals are just mythic people made manifest" We don't have the knowledge to make such statements as of now

It's a little more complex than that since the Illuminati didn't really want a homeland so much as a moving citadel of the enlightened within which to hoard all knowledge

[Nama]

The what is/are/were Primals concept is the one thing about XIV that really annoys me. Not to mention its implyed eikons are different but seem exactly the same. I don't even want to think about 1.0 opening and that 1.0 story likely had a completely different direction for primals.

[Niiro]

Given that they went through a lot of trouble to make it very clear what primals were in 2.0 and then in 3.0 they're like "but wait not these primals they're speshul" it kind of gives the impression they're just making it up as they go.

[Spira]

It seems to be more like a case of bad definitions. For most of the game's story we've been understanding Primals wrongly and it's only in 3.0 that they really make this clear. There probably is some close relation between Primals and (the Allagan definition of) Eikons but they're not interchangeable the way the Garleans use it.

All the Primals we've encountered so far (apart from Odin?) were summoned or sustained by crystal aether and prayer. It would appear that Sephirot doesn't fall into this category, and so isn't a primal but probably an eikon

[Nama]

Perhaps the problem was presentation but primals never felt like a misunderstanding but that the carpet was constantly being pulled out from under us as soon as we grasp even a thread. That there wasn't enough known to misunderstand.

Only thing clear to me is SE wants to move away from primals. Likely because to much resources are tied up supporting the lore reasons why primals exist. Eikons can be like oh shit heres a thing from ancient times but Primals need beastmen, where they live, why they summon, crystals, acisians etc etc.

[Spira]

Also they have very little in the way of character development. They are pretty one dimensional and can't really interact with anyone else who they can temper, so it really restricts the freedom to write them into stories.

[Rocl]

Also they have very little in the way of character development. They are pretty one dimensional and can't really interact with anyone else who they can temper, so it really restricts the freedom to write them into stories.

That is patently false. Primals are able to interact without people without Tempering, it just rarely is on the top of their list. Only the summoners are automatically Tempered, the rest have to be actively Tempered by the Primal.

We've also always been more or less told the Primals are beings summoned in lieu of gods-- we've always known they aren't real Gods. And yes, pretty much everything since the end of Heavensward has told the Warring Triad are considered Eikons-- but we have no way to know what separates Eikons from Primals. A lot of confusion stems from yeah, the Garleans used the term wrong, but we also don't have any canon Allagan usage of "Primal" which muddles things further.

Given that Heavensward is supposed to explain Midgardsormr's role in protecting Silvertear Falls, which is directly related to the sudden explosion in Primal population in Eorzea, I'm hopeful there will be some answers before 4.0. Hell, 3.2 seems focused on Hydaelyn (the character) and that alone gives me reason to hope since we've always been killing Primals to protect her without her direct okay to do so. She never asks us to stop Primal summoning, the Scions do based on their knowledge of how aether in Hydaelyn (the planet) works.

RE: what the fuck is an Eikon? Probably a Primal. As far as I can tell the Sephirot preview in French and German directly refer to him as a Primal. Also there are scant mentions in Japanese and French about being the god who uses aether to control the growth of living organisms. Rather than being tied to an elemental aspect, I suspect, if Eikons end up being their unique thing, rather than an elemental deity they're more philosophical/metaphysical in nature.

Given that they went through a lot of trouble to make it very clear what primals were in 2.0 and then in 3.0 they're like "but wait not these primals they're speshul" it kind of gives the impression they're just making it up as they go.

And, to be fair, they've always bent over backwards to point out Odin isn't like the other Primals we know of--setting up the "Eikon reveal" if you will.

[Spira]

That is patently false. Primals are able to interact without people without Tempering, it just rarely is on the top of their list. Only the summoners are automatically Tempered, the rest have to be actively Tempered by the Primal.

I think you're missing my point. Primals don't automatically temper everyone around them but can't have any meaningful interaction with anyone who isn't possessed of the Echo, or an Ascian, because you otherwise you can't exactly disagree with a Primal. Hypothetically, if you did all it would need to do is temper you, and the ARR Primals have shown they are more than willing to do it on numerous occasions.. Which is one good reason why the player is always the one tasked to kill it cos he's protected by the Echo.

Personally that doesn't make for a very good plot device as it severely restricts the kinds of interactions you can have with the Primals. It's another one of those things on the list that made the Scions so useless in 2.0 as well.

[Rocl]

Arguing with an avaricious rampaging god who ends up being moot because they're a god and can do whatever they want with you? Is that your point?

Ramuh is an outlier, sure, but nearly all of the Scions go to meet with him. Yes--the gods of the more warlike races wouldn't take time to debate but that's not necessarily a problem inherent in Primals tbh.

Titan and Ramuh don't Temper first and ask questions later--they're also Primals summoned in response to an aggression rather than an act of aggression in themselves.