Official global alpha start date: November 28th.

[Cichy]

One of the problems with 1.0 was that most abilities were shit. Only good ones were dread spikes, shock spikes, and sentinel.

[miokomioko]

Also, fewer but scaling spells/abilities is far better than a class full of completely outdated lower tiers of shit. Good riddance.

[Alkar]

The pacing was so awful back then, most of the time you were just waiting for that stupid bar to fill no matter what. Spamming Spirit Dart as a mage was just so stupid and not fun in the slightest.
Yes, they could've improved on it but most were just so frustrated with it that they simply wanted to see it go forever (count me in this group).
Yoshida decided to go with a more classic MMO system and there's nothing wrong with that, not every single part of the game needs to be unique. Heck, that's the main reason why XIV sucked so much... they wanted to make a game completely different from FFXI and MMOs in general and they completely forgot how to make one.
FFXI was successful (despite Tanaka I'd say) because they took Everquest and put the FF spin on it. The XI team played Everquest for one whole year before starting development on XI, the XIV team never did any of that with modern MMOs.

[Niiro]

Spamming Spirit Dart as a mage was just so stupid and not fun in the slightest.

If that's how you were playing, you were doing it very, very wrong.

What a lot of us miss about the old class system, as broken as it was, was the freedom it granted. It was the closest we got to being handed a bunch of skills and a few skeletal models and told to have fun and make up our own classes (case in point: mage tanks). Manual attacks and managing stamina actually required you to pay attention to more than just recast timers and you felt like a more direct participant in battle rather than just keeping time while your character killed stuff.

WS diversity and not having to meet combo requirements meant you could actually use skills for their intended purposes more often while the special regular attacks (the piercing LNC one, the conal MRD one, etc) made positioning still important but not "oh I missed the combo direction now I have to wait 30s to WS again". The stamina system also let you control the pace of combat to a certain extent, you could choose not to attack for a few moments in order to fill your gauge to execute a series of particular abilities/spells best used in quick succession, essentially making your own "combos" naturally using the mechanics of the abilities rather than the artificial combos we have now.

Combat pre 1.19 was just a lot more.....active, involving, fun really. You had so many tools at your disposal and so many potential ways to go about combat. Look at jobs now, there's 1 way to play them and that's it. There's virtually no customization to be had, what few cross class abilities still available now are often of mundane/mediocre use if useful at all and were deliberately chosen such that jobs aren't able to act outside their narrowly specified roles.

The old system may have been unbalanced but it wasn't inherently bad, with effort it could have had a lot of potential. In the name of "FF tradition" and ease of combat design we're left with 1 class = 1 job = 1 role and there's not much more to say about it.

[Lucavi]

One of the problems with 1.0 was that most abilities were shit. Only good ones were dread spikes, shock spikes, and sentinel.

The game needs more effects than the traditional FF variety. A MMO needs more than poison, slow, ect. Knockdowns, knockbacks, disarming abilities, ect.

If Yoshi-P truly meant what he said about wanting to have the team play WoW (or any such modern MMO at the time), he'll find a way to retain the "classic" FF abilities while adapting them for use in the modern MMO market. Having a thf only able to backstab or steal isn't going to cut it anymore. GW2's thf can do both of those and a WHOLE lot more.

[Seravi Edalborez]

The old system may have been unbalanced but it wasn't inherently bad, with effort it could have had a lot of potential. In the name of "FF tradition" and ease of combat design we're left with 1 class = 1 job = 1 role and there's not much more to say about it.

Basically how I feel. The complaints that there were a lot of garbage abilities is valid, which is one of many reasons the system sucked.

Old XIV: Different (than other MMOs) but flawed
ARR: Same but successful (pretend it's true for now)
Theoretical Old XIV that had fixes instead of sweeping every system mechanic under the rug: Different but successful

It's a hell of a "what-if" this late in the game. I just feel like if I wanted to play XI 2.0, I would go back to XI. Stamina wasn't -the- reason the combat sucked, in my opinion. It was just applied rather poorly.

[Cichy]

The game needs more effects than the traditional FF variety. A MMO needs more than poison, slow, ect. Knockdowns, knockbacks, disarming abilities, ect.

If Yoshi-P truly meant what he said about wanting to have the team play WoW (or any such modern MMO at the time), he'll find a way to retain the "classic" FF abilities while adapting them for use in the modern MMO market. Having a thf only able to backstab or steal isn't going to cut it anymore. GW2's thf can do both of those and a WHOLE lot more.

Yes but there is already GW2 and WOW and if I want to play that type of thf I will play GW2. I think FF classes became iconic and most fans expect them to remain somewhat defined. That's why Yoshi implemented jobs aint it?

[Alkar]

If that's how you were playing, you were doing it very, very wrong.

Yeah, because at lower levels as a mage starting out you had so many better options.
If you didn't realize I couldn't make it past 20 or so with the old system and that was on Conjurer.
Also there was no way to balance that mess without either removing some freedom or making all the classes exactly the same thing. What's the point in having a class system if they're virtually the same thing except for those traits and the weapons they use? In order to do what you want they should've scrapped the class system entirely allowing you to build your own character (which wouldn't work anyway because people would just get the best abilities/spells and there would be no difference at all).

I just feel like if I wanted to play XI 2.0, I would go back to XI.

From the videos and details we have ARR is nothing like FFXI, I'm not sure how you can even say that.

[Lucavi]

Yes but there is already GW2 and WOW and if I want to play that type of thf I will play GW2. I think FF classes became iconic and most fans expect them to remain somewhat defined. That's why Yoshi implemented jobs aint it?

So you want your Thf to have all of 2 abilities because that's all thf has traditionally had in FFs? You want your thf to backstab for big damage (every MMO thf does this) and steal things (every MMO thf does this). What else, then?

Edit: I'm being serious, by the way. Explain to me what you want "that Final Fantasy feeling" thf to have in a modern-day MMO. How should it fight? How should it move? What kind of evasion should it have? Just a bunch of white "miss!" text when mobs swing at it?

[Niiro]

Yes but there is already GW2 and WOW and if I want to play that type of thf I will play GW2. I think FF classes became iconic and most fans expect them to remain somewhat defined. That's why Yoshi implemented jobs aint it?

Considering the class system hasn't been present in any of the main series FF titles in a long fucking time I really don't get why people find them so "iconic".

If anything XI gave them this pseudo-iconic status and the vast majority of XIV players are or were XI players. They're not "iconic" as much as they are classic, that is, old. Even back when they were present in the series the class system became progressively more diverse with each title with more jobs doing different things.

That's how it should work, it's a system that evolved and people that ascribe to their "iconic" status seem to want to prevent that. XI was a lovely tribute to the ways of old, but there's no reason for the class system to have to stagnate with the same jobs doing the same things with the same themed equipment.

I just feel like if I wanted to play XI 2.0, I would go back to XI.

[Deuce]

I think FF classes became iconic and most fans expect them to remain somewhat defined. That's why Yoshi implemented jobs aint it?

I believe Yoshi's intent with a lot of the changes and additions is to appeal to the fans. We already know that there will be plenty of fan service in ARR, i.e. bigger boobs, male Miqo'te, jobs, Crystal Tower, etc. What will be interesting to see is the direction ARR takes 2 or 3 years from now. My hope is that ARR won't remain focused on FF fanfare and implement newer ideas at some point.

[Cichy]

So you want your Thf to have all of 2 abilities because that's all thf has traditionally had in FFs? You want your thf to backstab for big damage (every MMO thf does this) and steal things (every MMO thf does this). What else, then?

All the jobs have tons of abilities already. I'm saying I dont care for my THF to be casting Thunder.
The way GW2 and WOW classes are handled is completely different for a reason. You get one job/one character in both WOW and GW2. They provide you with multiple ability choices because you are bound to that one character and there is many people like me who will never level more than one toon. XIV and XI systems are more exciting to me because I get to play all the classes I want on one character. In the other MMOs you can sometimes re customize your abilities but that's usually it. Here we get to follow a new story, get new gear, new weapons, new abilities. With XIV you can change on the spot and completely alter the way your role on the spot. Seems like you keep treating one given job as if it was the only thing you get to play. I treat the whole job system like a skill tree. For me it's what I want from FF series. They aint gonna sell another WOW because there already is WOW.

[Charismatic]

Drop rates, of course.
Gotta get that TH gear! Hurp.

[Lucavi]

All the jobs have tons of abilities already. I'm saying I dont care for my THF to be casting Thunder.
The way GW2 and WOW classes are handled is completely different for a reason. You get one job/one character in both WOW and GW2. They provide you with multiple ability choices because you are bound to that one character and there is many people like me who will never level more than one toon. XIV and XI systems are more exciting to me because I get to play all the classes I want on one character. In the other MMOs you can sometimes re customize your abilities but that's usually it. Here we get to follow a new story, get new gear, new weapons, new abilities. With XIV you can change on the spot and completely alter the way your role on the spot. Seems like you keep treating one given job as if it was the only thing you get to play. I treat the whole job system like a skill tree. For me it's what I want from FF series. They aint gonna sell another WOW because there already is WOW.

Its not about me treating one job as if it were anything. Its me not wanting another XI where Dragoon has all of 3 abilities; where Warrior has Zerk, Voke, and weaponskills. So you can switch jobs? So what? When you're in a 20-minute fight that consists of nothing but moving slightly and using 3 abilities, things could be better.

Combat was flat in XIV, especially compared to other MMOs of the time. We were promised much, and were delivered little. You wanting the exact same thing that 1.0 had in 2.0 isn't really going to help anything.

Edit: Thankfully, with Yoshi-P spending so much time playing other MMOs, there's good reason to expect better in the way of combat.

[Cichy]

XIV's combat at release was quite different than at the end. If you ask around, most people were pretty happy with latest version of combat. The main issue was lag.

[Eagleheart]

XIV's combat at release was quite different than at the end. If you ask around, most people were pretty happy with latest version of combat. The main issue was lag.

I concur with this. ^o.o All the jobs were fun for me, especially PLD and WHM, and I think the universal cooldowns and MP/TP renovations are going to make things very interesting come 2.0, and that's even before we get into actual job adjustments, MNK in particular sounds very interesting.

With that said, among the jobs in 1.x, I think BLM was weakest in terms of activity during battle. The elements being confined to one particular item left things kinda... too simple. Thunder for anything worth fighting, Fire for speed runs, Blizzara when you need to finish 'em off, or a Sleepga. I am eager to see changes in BLM's repertoire.

[Kelenae]

Yeah, because at lower levels as a mage starting out you had so many better options.
If you didn't realize I couldn't make it past 20 or so with the old system and that was on Conjurer.
Also there was no way to balance that mess without either removing some freedom or making all the classes exactly the same thing. What's the point in having a class system if they're virtually the same thing except for those traits and the weapons they use? In order to do what you want they should've scrapped the class system entirely allowing you to build your own character (which wouldn't work anyway because people would just get the best abilities/spells and there would be no difference at all).



From the videos and details we have ARR is nothing like FFXI, I'm not sure how you can even say that.

See... you were ment to join buffing parties in order to level Conj.. thats what you were doing wrong! /sarcasam off

[Kelenae]

Drop rates, of course.
Gotta get that TH gear! Hurp.

And make sure the thief gets last hit?.. or first hit then kick him from the party? oh dont forget to check the moon phase!

[Niiro]

I concur with this. ^o.o All the jobs were fun for me, especially PLD and WHM, and I think the universal cooldowns and MP/TP renovations are going to make things very interesting come 2.0, and that's even before we get into actual job adjustments, MNK in particular sounds very interesting.

With that said, among the jobs in 1.x, I think BLM was weakest in terms of activity during battle. The elements being confined to one particular item left things kinda... too simple. Thunder for anything worth fighting, Fire for speed runs, Blizzara when you need to finish 'em off, or a Sleepga. I am eager to see changes in BLM's repertoire.

BLM never had much of a repertoire in terms of strategy.

Every FF but XI: use what it's weak to. (when you're controlling 4 or more party members that's all the depth it needed really)

In XI: Does it resist thunder?
>No -> Cast Thunder
>Yes -> Cast Blizzard
>Also sleep things

With XIV after the skill rehaul they just cut away the fat. Thunder for when you're focusing on a single target, Fire for multiple targets, Blizzard was a bit of both (instacast blizzara was sort of a utility as well) and of course sometimes you slept things. Compared to XI it was more diverse in it's role in that AoEing was actually useful in so many situations (using -agas in XI for AoE damage was pretty niche, you were pretty much always simul-casting on mobs that would either surely die or be resleepga-d immediately after).

I'd prefer the different spells have different innate properties like that than the old "use what it's weak to" which requires about as much strategy as rock-paper-scissors except you know what the other guys gonna throw beforehand.

Or in XI's case "rock beats everything except when it resists rock, then use scissors".

If anything taking away all the debuffs kind of left the mages with little else to do, they didn't even leave BLM with drain or siphon MP.

[Spider-Dan]

One of the problems with 1.0 was that most abilities were shit. Only good ones were dread spikes, shock spikes, and sentinel.

Aegis Boon, Deflection, Emulate, any DoTs, Siphon MP, Siphon TP, Sacrifice (especially THM sacrifice), Bloodletter, Multishot, Trifurcate, Quick Nock, Skull Sunder, Second Wind, Invigorate, old Feint, maybe something like pre-nerf Self-Preservation. (I'm guessing by "dread spikes" you meant stygian?)

There were plenty of good abilities in pre-1.18. The main (philosophical) objection people had was that "everyone can do everything," which was replaced in the new system by a much higher incidence of "you need [job x] or you can't accomplish your goal." Personally, the main problem I saw with <1.18 style classes was that the everyone can do everything paradigm was broken by ARC being able to do 2 major things that the other DDs could not: attack at range (with no counterbalancing advantage to non-ranged attacks) and pre-stack attacks (with Multishot/Trifurcate). There needed to be some way to offset that advantage, but Yoshi decided to bail on that paradigm, so oh well.

On a side note, one thing that I've noticed in the early ARR videos is the TP gauge. It is my understanding that TP starts at 1000 when idling and that abilities use up TP, which is then regenerated (through time/actions?). I don't know if base (1000) TP regeneration is disabled during combat, but if it is not, isn't that basically a tweaked stamina system?