Official global alpha start date: November 28th.

[Alkar]

What quest systems did you find enjoyable, Lucavi? I can't think of any off the top of my head that are so vastly different. The key to XI's questing was not that it was some great questing system, there were tons of flaws, but just that some of the quest lines told great stories and were just more then you'd get from many other MMO's past and present. Levequests in XIV essentially abandoned that system in favor of a ridiculously lowbrow quest spamming system that offered nothing more then exp/gil/random rewards. It felt more like a self-administration model for chimpanzee's then it did a game.

I think you may be carrying over some of your OF vitriol into this thread. Relax, nobody here thinks XIV should have been a carbon-copy of XI. All we're saying is that instead of assuming "newer is always better", the devs take a step back and take a look at what has worked well in XI and other successful MMO's - then improve on those things.

You're comparing Sidequests with levequests. They are not the same thing.

[Lucavi]

You're comparing Sidequests with levequests. They are not the same thing.

That's part of the problem. 1.0 had so few actual sidequests and flavor quests that people started confusing levequests with actual quests. Its no wonder, then, that they'd consider XI's questing superior, as levequest weren't quests at all, just a glorified mission board to gain XP. They were the Hogger of XIV, minus the low level raid hilarity.

Sad part is, you have OF idiots that want side and flavor quests removed and levequests... "enhanced". Whatever that means.

[blythe]

You're comparing Sidequests with levequests. They are not the same thing.

Yea, I think levequests were meant to be more comparable to other-MMO style quest progression rather than XI's side quests (in which they truly were on the "side" because grinding was the main form of leveling). Then the side quests we did eventually get in 1.0 were strangely useless because they were essentially "go kill 5 rats" but weren't enough to consistently EXP on...

[Lucavi]

Some of them are fleshed out, particularly the -REDACTED-. They've already stated that they didn't include many of the starting quest "chains" that include story quests so as not to spoil anything. An specifics would be NDA breaking, so I won't go there, but I wouldn't worry if that's your fear.

[Shimbo]

FFXI Basic sidequests were stupid and unless you looked that shit up on wiki you didn't have a clue where to go half the time. Mission Quests/Rank whatever and ya some job quests were kinda fun, but man fuck all that running around.. Like the end of cop was neat and all, but not running around for 2 fucking hours talking to people watching cutscenes wondering where your gd ring is.

Don't get me wrong getting sky and finishing cop felt like ya actually accomplished sumtin, but man what a chore lol. Killing Alex to get a shitty ring not so much. And wotg.. meh didn't bother.

At this point I just hope the new main story is boss; has pimp cutscenes, and has a decent reward. Also maybe opens up a new area to farm.

TL;DR Pls don't suck ARR!

[Enkidu]

That's part of the problem. 1.0 had so few actual sidequests and flavor quests that people started confusing levequests with actual quests. Its no wonder, then, that they'd consider XI's questing superior, as levequest weren't quests at all, just a glorified mission board to gain XP.

Honestly this is just getting comical. So XIV's "questing system" was some random sidequest or "flavor" quest of which maybe a handful existed at the launch? I honestly can't remember one at launch. Come on now, let's be real... Levequests were lauded as the "new XIV questing system" from the start by Tanaka et. al. and they were shit. End of story. Really shouldn't have to drive that one home...

Glad to hear questing in 2.0 is better though!

[SilverBreeze]

The idea behind Levequests wasn't bad in my opinion, it's just the execution that... well yeah.

[Alkar]

Honestly this is just getting comical. So XIV's "questing system" was some random sidequest or "flavor" quest of which maybe a handful existed at the launch? I honestly can't remember one at launch. Come on now, let's be real... Levequests were lauded as the "new XIV questing system" from the start by Tanaka et. al. and they were shit. End of story. Really shouldn't have to drive that one home...

Glad to hear questing in 2.0 is better though!

1.0 at launch had sidequests but they all sucked. Yoshi-P added more later on and some were good actually.
That doesn't change the fact that Levequests and Sidequests are not the same thing. Tanaka's opinion is no longer valid.

[Raldo]

Sidequests were added in patch 1.16. The only thing that could qualify as a 'sidequest' that was in at launch were the class and story quests.

[Enkidu]

1.0 at launch had sidequests but they all sucked. Yoshi-P added more later on and some were good actually.
That doesn't change the fact that Levequests and Sidequests are not the same thing. Tanaka's opinion is no longer valid.

Levequests were more similar to the questing systems in other MMO's and very different from XI, sure, but it's still a questing system... Not sure where you're trying to go with this, questing systems vary from game to game.

[Alkar]

Levequests were more similar to the questing systems in other MMO's and very different from XI, sure, but it's still a questing system... Not sure where you're trying to go with this, questing systems vary from game to game.

You're trying to argue that FFXI had better quests because they told a good story and used Levequests as a comparison. Like I've already said a few times they are not the same thing and the actual Sidequests will be closer to that in terms of story and variety. Levequests are nothing more than "go here, kill this" that can be repeated for easy and quick exp.
All we're saying here is that "good story" is not an excuse for terrible questing system, something FFXI had.

[Lucavi]

Levequests were more similar to the questing systems in other MMO's and very different from XI, sure, but it's still a questing system... Not sure where you're trying to go with this, questing systems vary from game to game.

Levequests had nothing to do with other MMO's systems aside from "kill X, collect Y from NPC upon completion". That's it. No other MMO had some card system where you can activate the quest anywhere in the wilderness, can set the difficulty, and have some semi-instanced bubble around you while you progressed.

How many other MMOs have you honestly invested time in? I'm curious.

[Kurokikaze]

Levequests had nothing to do with other MMO's systems aside from "kill X, collect Y from NPC upon completion". That's it. No other MMO had some card system where you can activate the quest anywhere in the wilderness, can set the difficulty, and have some semi-instanced bubble around you while you progressed.

How many other MMOs have you honestly invested time in? I'm curious.

Pretty much this...

[Lucavi]

The entire argument seems to be "so long as you tell a good story, your other systems can be shit". I just don't know how that holds up in today's market. Just because it worked in 2004, when the only other viable competition was EQ that had been out for ages, doesn't mean its going to work today.

Unless you're gonna consider Asheron's Call 2 or The Matrix Online "viable competition".

[Thiefami]

I just know most quest systems are shit. Good story isn't an excuse to make a terrible questing system, but skimping on story to make a mechanically efficient system is really no better. Clearly there is a such thing as middle ground and I honestly do not believe anyone on this forum is saying to throw in a vanilla XI questing system. A balance between good story and fluid navigation does exist.

[Lucavi]

I just know most quest systems are shit. Good story isn't an excuse to make a terrible questing system, but skimping on story to make a mechanically efficient system is really no better. Clearly there is a such thing as middle ground and I honestly do not believe anyone on this forum is saying to throw in a vanilla XI questing system. A balance between good story and fluid navigation does exist.

Who skimped on a story? What game are you referencing when you express worries about "skimping"? That's what I want to know. There's "forgettable" stories, and then there's skimping on story. The only game I know that outright skimped would be TERA or maybe Aion, but those are Korean Grinders focused more on combat, cash shops and cute bunny ears than making a world people want to be involved in.

[Shimbo]

i want a quest where it sez how many people at ur level can you murder(ko) in one minute and if you are not the level they can't kill you but if they are you see a crazy red named person running at you and can fight back!! Drawback people will pwn you if they are there and not afk. Reward: New title; Crazy MOFO! BRB OF.

Someone get this shit back on track plox.

[Thiefami]

Who skimped on a story? What game are you referencing when you express worries about "skimping"? That's what I want to know. There's "forgettable" stories, and then there's skimping on story. The only game I know that outright skimped would be TERA or maybe Aion, but those are Korean Grinders focused more on combat, cash shops and cute bunny ears than making a world people want to be involved in.

I simply do not play games I do not enjoy, so expressing no worries here. You're in defense mode considering all I said was there is a such thing of middle ground. Best of both worlds. There are a lot of games out there that literally make me faceroll on keyboard with their boring ass quest system. You can disagree, it's called an opinion.

[Sephiroth]

Leves were pretty good for what they were, the problem was they were the only real content for a long time so people began to hate them pretty quick. There was also a lot of bad design in the system such as mobs running half way across the map, the inconsistency in the difficulty (even after they changed it) and the mobs spawning far apart in some of them. Fix all this and they'll be the fast casual EXP they were meant to be. The high level faction leves were mostly well done from what I saw apart from the shitty loot system but that was a problem with the game itself.

[Lucavi]

So your point is that you enjoyed XI? Congrats, I guess? I'm still wondering how your opinion somehow makes XI's quest system viable in today's market. That kind of is the entire point to this little tangent: making money for SE by actually having people play their upcoming game.