Official global alpha start date: November 28th.

[Dakin]

How can graphics in an MMO not be important? If you're going to spend a year or more of your life playing the damn thing, you might as well be satisfied with how it looks.

It just comes down to preference. The previous comparison about vacationing makes sense, but for me graphics are a long ways away on my list of criteria for enjoying a game. Content and how much fun I have doing said content is a much bigger factor. If I'm going on vacation, I would rather go to a less visually appealing destination and have a blast doing things there. I would love the scenery in paradise, but would be bored off my ass if there wasn't anything to do.

[Lucavi]

How can graphics in an MMO not be important? If you're going to spend a year or more of your life playing the damn thing, you might as well be satisfied with how it looks.

I was satisfied with WoW's graphics, because they, and the art style, lended itself well to the world. I spent years playing it as well. Could they have been better? Sure, but then something else may have been sacrificed as a result. Look how much power could have went to making XI's movement and imputs better (potentially) if they'd decided that having broad-shouldered mithras wasn't a mandatory priority.

FF's have always had high-quality graphics for their era, but controls have suffered as a result, and linearity. FFX had tremendous graphics, but was linear. XI was linear in certain areas where the graphics took over. Lets not even talk about how much linearity XIII had to dump in, just to keep the graphics so high-quality.

Regardless, 2.0 has a chance to have both worlds.

[Enkidu]

I didn't mind the graphics in WoW, I just didn't enjoy the style. I'm kind of iffy on XIV's style and the graphics are sort of average for what I'd expect in 2013 honestly, but the gameplay is a lot better. I think it's shaping up to be a game that can at least win back some XI players and pull in some of the people that bought XIV before they knew what a horrible game it was.

Nothing really screams monthly sub in my opinion though, that should be scrapped.

[Elcura]

If you were satisfied with the graphics of WoW then good for you, but if you hated the style and look of WoW you would definitely have a harder time enjoying yourself. Some people value gameplay over graphics and some people simply value graphics (personally I like it all, if a game has shit graphics it's harder to enjoy, and by shit I mean lacking in quality, not style). My point is, you should be happy with how the game looks because if you aren't then you're going to have a harder time (key words being harder time) enjoying it. Which isn't to say it's impossible.

WoW's character models are well made and very stylish, but the quality of the models and the world is very low. This may have been important when WoW was first released and I'll certainly never criticize something that worked so well. But I personally never could get into WoW because I didn't like the style. I didn't like the way my character looked or moved or fought, so I didn't last long. To be fair, when I got bored of the way XI looked -- because for a long time it was totally static with a few new updates to spells, WS, armour, jobs, weapons and areas -- I quit too.

I didn't mind the graphics in WoW, I just didn't enjoy the style. I'm kind of iffy on XIV's style and the graphics are sort of average for what I'd expect in 2013 honestly, but the gameplay is a lot better.

Style wise I understand, FFXIV so far has lacked a lot of style and felt like some gritty realistic fantasy. But the graphics are top-quality and in no way average, especially when you directly compare the quality of the graphics against other MMOs (and just other games in general). Naturally it won't look as amazing as something planned for just a single platform or a single player game, but taking those limitations into mind it still looks amazing.

I was satisfied with WoW's graphics, because they, and the art style, lended itself well to the world. I spent years playing it as well. Could they have been better? Sure, but then something else may have been sacrificed as a result. Look how much power could have went to making XI's movement and imputs better (potentially) if they'd decided that having broad-shouldered mithras wasn't a mandatory priority.

FF's have always had high-quality graphics for their era, but controls have suffered as a result, and linearity. FFX had tremendous graphics, but was linear. XI was linear in certain areas where the graphics took over. Lets not even talk about how much linearity XIII had to dump in, just to keep the graphics so high-quality.

Regardless, 2.0 has a chance to have both worlds.

I don't think anything suffered (significantly at least) as a direct result of the graphics. The gameplay of FF has always been on a separate plane than the graphics. You can't blame bad design on the graphics, those are two totally separate fields. You tote FFX and XIII as examples of linearity because of graphics, but didn't FFX-2 and XIII-2 have identical graphics and improved game play and exploration? Didn't FFXII which was graphically superior to X and XI (in quality and optimization) have better game play and exploration?

XI suffered all around because SE didn't know what the fuck they were doing. XIV suffered because of hubris (and a lot of I don't know what the fuck!) but the same graphical quality is being used and the game play has (just from a 1.0 perspective, because I can't personally speak for 2.0) improved.

[Lucavi]

Skipping the rest (because its opinion and everyone has a right to theirs: if someone hated WoW's style, that was that; both companies made serious bank in the end, which, I guess, is what matters in the end) and focusing on XIII: the game -would- have been at least somewhat less linear if they hadn't been so low on memory for the consoles. Graphics played a part in the lack of available memory (alongside the laughably pitiful capabilities of both console). Due in part to that (I realize it wasn't the only reason, but was a reason), towns were scrapped, and our hand was held for 8/10ths of the game.

You can easily chalk each and every example you made as being a sequel, and not the original. X-2 was a sequel, and as such, they had far more time with the engine, and knew how and where to squeeze more out of the engine. Same for XII over XI, same for XIII-2 over XIII. I'm not denying that they managed to scrape out open-world play while retaining the graphics, but why would else would it always come with the second try at making a game with the engine? Every PC title out there that rolls out an expansion of any merit touts enhanced areas and features while retaining the same engine. The more you dick with a system, the more you can get out of it.

You dabble with PCs, so you should be able to understand that the more time you spend with an engine, and the more you modify it, the more you can wind up doing with it. I remain unconvinced that the initial versions of each game would'nt have had more of an open-ended nature if graphics graphics graphics wasn't the only other thing on their mind aside from cutscenes and plot. And SE knew what they were doing with XI: they were ripping off the EQ skeleton and replacing the the guts with "That Final Fantasy Feeling".

Not that any of it matters, as, ONCE AGAIN, I've clearly stated that 2.0 is already mixing both styles and has a chance to make a pretty nice hybrid. It wouldn't be the first game to do it, though, as AOC already had the sexy graphics combined with the open world and interactivity; AOC just had a shitty ass boss in Funcom.

[Cichy]

I've tried out The Secret World yesterday and I have extremely hard time playing it just because of the aesthetics. Especially how stiff and lifeless the characters are. I turned on XIV Alpha after couple hours of TSW and it was such a huge difference for me. Even running around felt pleasant and smooth. I think people coming from those other games will have similar experience

[Sup3rB4d]

I just don't see the point in the restriction other than making me walk the path exactly how they want. RIFT has pretty good graphics, is aesthetically appealing and isn't filled with invisible barriers everywhere.

[Alkar]

I just don't see the point in the restriction other than making me walk the path exactly how they want. RIFT has pretty good graphics, is aesthetically appealing and isn't filled with invisible barriers everywhere.

All I can say is that it's only alpha.

[Elcura]

and focusing on XIII: the game -would- have been at least somewhat less linear if they hadn't been so low on memory for the consoles. Graphics played a part in the lack of available memory (alongside the laughably pitiful capabilities of both console). Due in part to that (I realize it wasn't the only reason, but was a reason), towns were scrapped, and our hand was held for 8/10ths of the game.

Limitations of the platform (or anything, really) doesn't have to hamper design, it often aids it. If the platform is the cause of said limitations as is often the case, the design doesn't have to suffer because of it. Design can exceed the limitations of the platform. XIII-2 showed us that with a hub portal (and long ass loading times) we could have exploration with the XIII graphics, if that concept was the basis of XIII's design it would have been less linear, invariably it might have been messy because of the lack of knowledge with the engine but the next title would show more competence.

It's only because someone wanted to design a linear game that XIII was linear, and that may have been because of the graphics, but it was most likely just bad and lazy design compounded by stupid deadlines and management.

You can easily chalk each and every example you made as being a sequel, and not the original. X-2 was a sequel, and as such, they had far more time with the engine, and knew how and where to squeeze more out of the engine. Same for XII over XI, same for XIII-2 over XIII. I'm not denying that they managed to scrape out open-world play while retaining the graphics, but why would else would it always come with the second try at making a game with the engine? Every PC title out there that rolls out an expansion of any merit touts enhanced areas and features while retaining the same engine. The more you dick with a system, the more you can get out of it.

Well...yeah. I am chalking those up to being sequels because you're implying that graphics have something to do with linearity. I'm suggesting that these games prove this is not the case. Linearity is design and you could also say familiarity. If SE spent years experimenting with the engine before making a game it would be a lot better, but a company often can't do that so the only chance to show improvement is with a sequel. Unless you want each FF game to take like a year or two more to be released so the team can get used to the engine, you do what you can with what you know.

You dabble with PCs, so you should be able to understand that the more time you spend with an engine, and the more you modify it, the more you can wind up doing with it. I remain unconvinced that the initial versions of each game would'nt have had more of an open-ended nature if graphics graphics graphics wasn't the only other thing on their mind aside from cutscenes and plot. And SE knew what they were doing with XI: they were ripping off the EQ skeleton and replacing the the guts with "That Final Fantasy Feeling".

It's the nature of RPGs, especially in the past. What is the game play of FF? It's an ATB system along with basic interactions and movement on the map. When your game play design is THAT simple, naturally you wouldn't have to think about it more than necessary. At that point, everything else becomes more important and this trend has shown because FF games are very simple mechanic wise but have amazing presentation, but steadily the game play has been getting more adventurous and interesting, imo, starting with X-2.

And you can't tell me SE knew what they were doing if copying EQ was the only goal. Because that shows about as much insight as not knowing what the fuck you want to do. SE had never made an MMO before, nor one designed for consoles so it's only natural that they were jumping in the deep end. XIV was disappointing because it didn't show us that SE had learned anything from XI, but luckily Yoshi-P has shown he isn't such a closed-minded idiot.

[Kachiko]

WoW likely won't update their character models because of the high amount of artwork and animation involved. Every single armor and weapon is also going to have to be re-drawn and animated, including any enemies based off of the races. There's also the fact that a lot of people do like the art and will hate the change; remember when the changed Ogre's and the Succubus? I'm pretty sure they will always chose a new expansion, over work required, for new models, for those two reasons.

[Spider-Dan]

Good graphics and good gameplay are not a zero-sum game. There are plenty of games that had radically improved graphics and gameplay* over their competition; FF7, EQ, Oblivion, even games like Street Fighter III, Virtua Fighter 3, and Daytona.

All of the memory issues that might be solved by increased linearity are no more problematic than settings tweaks; lower quality shadows, lower quality textures, less AA, etc. I doubt there comes a point where gameplay is sacrificed because SE wants to maintain a certain resolution on the shadows.

*edit: I don't want to get bogged down in the definition of "radically improved gameplay;" suffice it to say that those games were among the best in the market at the time

[Enkidu]

Style wise I understand, FFXIV so far has lacked a lot of style and felt like some gritty realistic fantasy. But the graphics are top-quality and in no way average, especially when you directly compare the quality of the graphics against other MMOs (and just other games in general). Naturally it won't look as amazing as something planned for just a single platform or a single player game, but taking those limitations into mind it still looks amazing.

I don't know... The graphics do not impress me at all. 1.0 impressed me, this seems a little scaled back from that. Probably necessary to do what they're doing on PS3, but I wouldn't call it impressive. It still looks good compared with other MMO's out now, hence average for what I'd expect in 2013.

A lot of times SE can coast a little just on how great a game looks, not this one, that's all. They need to deliver on everything else, so far they're doing a good job. I'm just not giving my hopes up that this is going to be some legendary revival. It's going to do okay and I'll certainly play it if they do the right thing and go F2P, but time will tell. At least the game is fun this time around!

[Oreth]

lol f2p...

[Sephiroth]

I'll certainly play it if they do the right thing and go F2P

You may as well give up and forget the game already.

[brozy]

Seriously what is this huge deal people seem to be making out of MMOs going F2P lately, sure it'd be nice not to pay a subscription but honestly from the ones that i've played that is really the only upside, at least in my eyes.

[LD]

Japan's views on F2P essentially make anything other than a sub model impossible for the next 5 years. Also, they're having a hard enough time making the assets and programming just for the main game. Building in extra shit for them to sell to justify going F2P isn't going to happen soon. Plus FFXI is a sub model and has been working for TEN YEARS. As far as SE is concerned, if they actually get a player base back for xiv they'll have another cash cow,

[Alkar]

SE simply wants a steady flow of cash from their MMOs, going F2P isn't gonna give that at all.
And look at Dragon Quest X for another example. It's at 400k subs and they've already covered dev. costs, it'll be profitable very soon.

[Lucavi]

What was DQX's costs, though? They didn't market it to the world, and you can't tell me it cost as much as XIV to make. Plus, DQ is such a beloved franchise in Japan that they could basically make a DQ game with a pixelated lump of shit as the protagonist and Japan would still lick it up on their knees.

While I'll agree that holding 400k subs would be pretty nice, I don't think that DQ and XIV had anywhere near the same development costs; this isn't a game I can see being profitable for SE within a year running on those numbers. I'd probably double those figures, especially based on a worldwide launch.

[Alkimi]

Yeah I'd imagine they'll need 500k+ for a few years to even break even, considering the vast amounts of money they've probably thrown at both this and 1.0.

[Rakisho]

Yeah I'd imagine they'll need 500k+ for a few years to even break even, considering the vast amounts of money they've probably thrown at both this and 1.0.

Might be hard to reach.