U.S. Fiscal Cliff

[Komm Suesser Tod]

So you believe that Congress can't come together to compromise to avoid fiscal cliff, but after the cliff, they'll come together and undo some of the damage in the form of uncutting the spending and lowering the taxes?

Ok, here's how it can work. Tax cuts get axed across the board, defense spending and social services go, then after that bills proposing tax cuts on the 98% or so and restoring at least some of the funds to the social services, even defense get introduced, no political cover to not vote for a tax cut, it gets passed.

[Callisto]

It's basically semantic idiocy from conservatives. If they come to an agreement ahead of time they have to vote to raise taxes. If the deadline comes and goes though, then they can offset some of the sequestration and then they technically voted to cut taxes instead and tea partyers can't accuse them of voting to raise them.

[Niiro]

By not voting on a budget that raises taxes before the fiscal cliff and allowing it to happen, which will raise taxes, they technically didn't vote for a tax raise.

It's the same sort of "logic" that says tax cuts aren't the same as spending from a financial perspective.

If it does happen the best thing to come of it will probably be the forced cuts to defense, because there's no fucking way to get those otherwise no matter how much of a money pit it is. Let's be real tho, a few flagpins and some bullshit about supporting the troops and defense spending will probably be restored to it's previous level or higher in the new budget.

[Callisto]

The defense cuts were the only positive I saw out of it too, that and maybe calling the new plan 'Obama Tax Cuts' for troll factor. I believe they'll not make the deadline, but fix it within a week or two after...what I don't have a solid understanding of is if the sequestration tax rates will be locked in for the entire year or pro-rated when new rates are established. Since I have student loans in default I don't receive any of my tax returns, if my employer has to withhold at the higher rate I'm not even going to get that back the next year

[Outlaw]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
The New Year could push milk prices to $7 a gallon.

With Congress spending all its time trying to avert the fiscal cliff, a slew of other legislative matters are going unattended. One of them is the agriculture bill which, if not addressed, could lead to a doubling of the price of milk early next year.

It works like this: In order to keep dairy farmers in businesses, the government agrees to buy milk and other products if the price gets too low. The current agriculture bill has a formula that means the government steps in if the price of milk were to drop by roughly half from its current national average of about $3.65 a gallon.

Problem is, the current bill expired last summer, and Congress had been unable to agree on a new one. Several protections for farmers have already expired, and several more are set to do so over the next few months. One of them is the dairy subsidy, which expires January 1.

But instead of leaving farmers entirely out in the cold, the law states that if a new bill isn't passed or the current one extended, the formula for calculating the price the government pays for dairy products reverts back to a 1949 statute. Under that formula, the government would be forced to buy milk at twice today's price -- driving up the cost for everyone.

"If you like anything made with milk, you're going to be impacted by the fact that there's no farm bill," U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack told CNN's Candy Crowley in an interview on State of the Union airing Sunday, Dec. 30.

"Consumers are going to be a bit shocked when instead of seeing $3.60 a gallon for milk, they see $7 a gallon for milk. And that's going to ripple throughout all of the commodities if this thing goes on for an extended period of time," Vilsack said.

Sky-high milk prices wouldn't necessarily be good for dairy farmers either, according to Chris Galen, a spokesman for the National Milk Producers Federation, which represents over 30,000 dairy farmers.

While it might provide a short term boost to profits, there's a fear that consumers would either cut back on dairy or opt for imported dairy products. It could also force food makers to search for alternatives to dairy, like soy.

"We call it the dairy cliff," Galen said.

Fortunately, there's still time for Congress to act.

Galen said the government would have to issue a notice saying it was going to pay the increased price for dairy products, then set up a schedule for when purchases would start, a process that could take a few weeks.

"It's not like people would dump blocks of cheese on the USDA's front lawn January first," he said.

To prevent the price spike, Congress either needs to extend the current bill, pass a new bill, or enact some provision to keep the 1949 law from taking effect.

Given the current state of the fiscal cliff talks and Congress' inability to get things done in general, dairy lovers might want to stock up now.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/21/news...html?hpt=hp_t1

It's not just milk. Wheat, cotton and other basic staples will be affected.

[archibaldcrane]

The defense cuts were the only positive I saw out of it too, that and maybe calling the new plan 'Obama Tax Cuts' for troll factor. I believe they'll not make the deadline, but fix it within a week or two after...what I don't have a solid understanding of is if the sequestration tax rates will be locked in for the entire year or pro-rated when new rates are established. Since I have student loans in default I don't receive any of my tax returns, if my employer has to withhold at the higher rate I'm not even going to get that back the next year

Pro-rated. Taxes are only active when they're active, if they change shit on January 8th, effective January 9th, well, then that's that.

[Callisto]

So much for the economy recovering, lol. Too many people who aren't paying attention are going to overextend themselves with holiday spending then get totally shitwrecked in Q1 2013, going to be 2009 again in a hurry.

[Krazy]

Well, guess I'm pouring orange soda on my Cinnamon Toast Crunch then.

[Callisto]

Pro-rated. Taxes are only active when they're active, if they change shit on January 8th, effective January 9th, well, then that's that.

Good to know, thanks.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Pro-rated. Taxes are only active when they're active, if they change shit on January 8th, effective January 9th, well, then that's that.

Also, the Treasury and the IRS, if a deal is imminent, can simply choose not to enforce the new rates.

[Pikarya]

and now Washington goes on Vacation. I guess this isn't that important.

[Mazmaz]

By not voting on a budget that raises taxes before the fiscal cliff and allowing it to happen, which will raise taxes, they technically didn't vote for a tax raise.

It's the same sort of "logic" that says tax cuts aren't the same as spending from a financial perspective.

No, I understand that it's a sort of logic loophole for them to then be able to say they didn't raise taxes, but what if for example, teabaggers decided they wouldn't vote for a bill to cut taxes on the 98% because it doesn't contain anything for the other 2%. Or what if they say they wouldn't restore the other spending cuts back at all because they're "against government spending". There's a reason I called them political suicide bombers.

If they don't, then we're stuck with them for 2 years before they can be voted out of office, right?

[archibaldcrane]

Moderate republicans would join with democrats in that case to pass a bill. There's only like 40-50 tea party republicans in the house.

edit: The new house will probably be like 30-40.

[Mazmaz]

Oh I wasn't aware of that. I thought tea party made up a majority of the republicans in the house. But moderate republicans all also signed the Grover Norquist BS? If not, I would think it would be an idea if the dems just threw legislation at the house to avoid the fiscal cliff and see if moderate republicans would break party ranks to try and avoid it.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah most all of them have signed Norquist's pledge, which is irrelevant once we go over the cliff - noone will be raising taxes at that point.

[Komm Suesser Tod]

Yeah most all of them have signed Norquist's pledge, which is irrelevant once we go over the cliff - noone will be raising taxes at that point.

Exactly. I think going over the cliff is probably for the best so we can ditch the Bush tax cuts and get new ones.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I hate the fact that it's called the cliff, like somehow going over is going to kill us. Sensationalism at its finest

[Pikarya]

I hate the fact that it's called the cliff, like somehow going over is going to kill us. Sensationalism at its finest

The term has commonly been used since the early 50's. Nothing really sensationalist about it.

[Tyche]

Milk is .99 a gallon here lol. Who pays $4 a gallon?

[hey]

Milk is .99 a gallon here lol. Who pays $4 a gallon?

Most stores around me are usually $3.5-4, except BJs, which is like $2, i believe.