Michigan joins 23 other states in passing union-busting laws

[archibaldcrane]

Ugh, such flashbacks of Wisconsin. What a bunch of cowards.

[guartz]

If you told me about stealing someone's job, I wouldn't like you much either. I don't belong to a union. Just sayin~

Yes, to clarify, jobs like disposing of my own trash or carrying things to a certain location. I'm a monster.

[archibaldcrane]

Union film sets are like that too, as far as strict delineation of responsibility.

Works out pretty well, shit gets done, people are pro, everyone makes a shitload of money (production companies and workers) and goes home at a reasonable time (or gets paid out the ass to work OT).

[Kalmado]

Yes, to clarify, jobs like disposing of my own trash or carrying things to a certain location. I'm a monster.

You really are the worst.

[guartz]

You really are the worst.

at any rate, was there a good point raised on why mandatory membership fees really are requirement for union sustainability?

[Ksandra]

about ten times when mentioned how ineffective it is with the walmart opt-in one, but ya know, facts are just so silly and not worth the time. Better to imagine what you want to be true.

[guartz]

about ten times when mentioned how ineffective it is with the walmart opt-in one, but ya know, facts are just so silly and not worth the time. Better to imagine what you want to be true.

Seriously? You don't see the ridiculousness of what you are saying?
What was it? Dozens of workers? Out of what, 1.2 million that walmart employs?

[BaneTheBrawler]

I know my imagination is a far superior world to live in than this dump.

[Ksandra]

Seriously? You don't see the ridiculousness of what you are saying?
What was it? Dozens of workers? Out of what, 1.2 million that walmart employs?

uhhhh...why do you think it was just a dozen workers...

why mandatory membership fees really are requirement for union sustainability?

oh, right. It's not mandatory so it's not sustainable.

[guartz]

Our Walmart is the group leading the charge is numbered in a whooping 4000 people. Getting closer to 1%.

[MaachaQ]

Our Walmart is the group leading the charge is numbered in a whooping 4000 people. Getting closer to 1%.

Except that any Walmart will close its doors rather than allow a union to bargain for the workers there. I've heard of multiple cases, this is just the first I came up with after googling:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0210-13.htm

As Union Nears Win, Wal-Mart Closes Store
by Adam Geller


NEW YORK - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. says it will close one of its Canadian stores, just as some 200 workers at the location are near winning the first-ever union contract from the world's largest retailer.

Wal-Mart said it was shuttering the store in Jonquiere, Quebec, in response to unreasonable demands from union negotiators that would make it impossible for the store to sustain itself.

"We were hoping it wouldn't come to this," Andrew Pelletier, a spokesman for Wal-Mart Canada, said Wednesday. "Despite nine days of meetings over three months, we've been unable to reach an agreement with the union that in our view will allow the store to operate efficiently and profitably."


Pierre Martineau, left, and Patrice Bergeron, two of the Wal-Mart workers who initiated the unionization, stand in front of their workplace, a Wal-Mart department store, Tuesday Sept. 28, 2004 in Jonquiere, Que. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said Thursday, Feb. 9, 2005, it will close the Canadian store. (AP Photo/CP PHOTO/Jacques Boissinot)
Pelletier said the store will close in May. The retailer had first discussed closing the Jonquiere store last October, saying the store was losing money.

The United Food & Commercial Workers Canada asked Quebec labor officials to appoint a mediator last week, saying negotiations with Wal-Mart had reached an impasse.

Union leaders dismissed Wal-Mart's reasons for closing the store and promised to fight the move.

"Wal-Mart has fired these workers not because the store was losing money but because the workers exercised their right to join a union," Michael J. Fraser, national director of UFCW Canada, said in a written statement. "Once again, Wal-Mart has decided it is above the law and that the only rules that count are their rules."

Wal-Mart's decision to close the store reflects the retailer's deeply rooted aversion to unions, and its worries that organized labor had nearly established a beachhead, said Burt Flickinger III of Strategic Resource Group, a consulting firm specializing in retailing and consumer goods.

But he said the move could backfire for Wal-Mart, which has worked hard to counter a wave of bad publicity and portray itself as a generous employer.

"The store closing may potentially catalyze the combination of the government (officials in Canada), organized labor and consumers working together against Wal-Mart," Flickinger said.

Claudia Tremblay, a cashier at the store, said many employees burst into tears when managers told them the news Wednesday morning.

"Many people cried, including myself," Tremblay said. "I'm a mother of two children and I'm separated from my husband. It's very difficult."

Tremblay said she abstained from the unionization vote. She said she was upset her noncommittal stance won't save her job.

The store in Jonquiere, about 240 miles northeast of Montreal, became the first unionized Wal-Mart store in North America last September, after the bargaining unit was certified by provincial labor officials. Since then, workers at a second Quebec store have also been granted union status. Neither has reached a contract.

The union efforts at both stores are part of a larger chess game labor organizers are waging with Wal-Mart at stores across Canada. The campaign, financed by UFCW money from both Canada and the United States, is also geared toward capturing workers' attention in Wal-Mart's home country.

The closest a U.S. union has ever come to winning a battle with Bentonville, Ark.-based company occurred in 2000 at a store in Jacksonville, Texas, where 11 workers in the store's meatpacking department voted to join and be represented by the UFCW.

That effort failed when Wal-Mart eliminated the job of meatcutter companywide, and shifted from in-store meatcutting to stocking only pre-wrapped meat.

© 2005 Associated Press

Anecdotes away! Around the time of the meltdown in the states (2005-7) my sister and I both worked retail in Michigan, me at Meijer (union) she at Walmart (nonunion). We both had similar jobs, hours, and pay. She paid 10x what I did for healthcare, and could not cover her husband or child on her plan while I could. I had mandatory overtime pay if I worked over 8 hours in a single day, she only got overtime if she went over 40 hours in a week, and was sometimes forced to "condition" the store after closing (and after punching out) before she could go home.

[Pirian]

Walmart also left Germany completely -- a nation whose population is very heavy in favor of unions

[kuronosan]

Gotta love a company that simply does away with any job that promises better working conditions with a union.

[guartz]

Look all that self righteous and misplaced morality.

[Acevalefor]

Anecdotes away! Around the time of the meltdown in the states (2005-7) my sister and I both worked retail in Michigan, me at Meijer (union) she at Walmart (nonunion). We both had similar jobs, hours, and pay. She paid 10x what I did for healthcare, and could not cover her husband or child on her plan while I could. I had mandatory overtime pay if I worked over 8 hours in a single day, she only got overtime if she went over 40 hours in a week, and was sometimes forced to "condition" the store after closing (and after punching out) before she could go home.

If your sister was doing work for the company off the clock, that is her problem. I understand your point, but people's refusal to work for nothing can accomplish a lot. Oregon state law would have my company paying her for 5 years worth of pay if anyone found out I was forcing her to "condition" the store off the clock. The only thing we are allowed to do is unpaid break for 30 minutes after 6 hours worked.

State legislation can accomplish the same things that unions can but will not bankrupt companies while lobbying for their employees. However, this requires a good State administration that is not in the pocket of the major corporations they are writing regulations for. Enter Citizens United.

[Pirian]

If your sister was doing work for the company off the clock, that is her problem. I understand your point, but people's refusal to work for nothing can accomplish a lot. Oregon state law would have my company paying her for 5 years worth of pay if anyone found out I was forcing her to "condition" the store off the clock. The only thing we are allowed to do is unpaid break for 30 minutes after 6 hours worked.

This only works if workers know their rights, which many do not. Even if workers know their rights they are not still as likely to do anything about it if they think they'll lose their job, and they really need that job. They may force the company to pay 5 years of pay, but that's not going to happen until after the case goes to court, and after it gets appealed. If the individual is already living paycheck to paycheck, then they feel can't really afford to go through this process

[Acevalefor]

This only works if workers know their rights, which many do not. Even if workers know their rights they are not still as likely to do anything about it if they think they'll lose their job, and they really need that job. They may force the company to pay 5 years of pay, but that's not going to happen until after the case goes to court, and after it gets appealed. If the individual is already living paycheck to paycheck, then they feel can't really afford to go through this process

Agreed. I am torn about the whole union thing. I have seen unions abuse the system and I have seen corporations abuse the system. I think in the end instead of letting companies run rampant by removing collective bargaining rights from the workers, unions need to be regulated and companies need to have some ability to tell the union to fuck off when the members stick their heads in the sand and refuse to negotiate.

[archibaldcrane]

Companies ALWAYS have the ability to tell the union to fuck off, I hope you realize that right?

You fire them and hire new people. Period. Don't cry for the poor corporations.

[Acevalefor]

Companies ALWAYS have the ability to tell the union to fuck off, I hope you realize that right?

You fire them and hire new people. Period. Don't cry for the poor corporations.

There is no crying for the corporations. But I have seen some fucked up shit done by unions to screw over their own members in the name of "seniority" in the ranks. Stuff like Tommy getting prevailing wage because he has been a member longer than Chuck who is more qualified for the job and the raise that goes with it. I can't think of more right now, but that is the kind of shit I am concerned about with unions.

[ringthree]

There is no crying for the corporations. But I have seen some fucked up shit done by unions to screw over their own members in the name of "seniority" in the ranks. Stuff like Tommy getting prevailing wage because he has been a member longer than Chuck who is more qualified for the job and the raise that goes with it. I can't think of more right now, but that is the kind of shit I am concerned about with unions.

Do you not think that seniority should be respected at some level?