E3 2013

[SamanosukeShiva]

Xenoblade 2 or something. They can't make Xenogears I think?

They do have license for Xenosaga, so probably Xenogears too?

[Kiarax]

Do publishers/developers recieve any money from gamestop sales. Serious yet slightly rhetorical question, because they may actually, but I doubt it.

Just any potential DLC/online pass purchases.

[notorious bum]

Now we have a pro-DRM industry lackey posting in here? Preaching the dangers of supporting piracy for us, the consumer? Oh lawd.

I like how all those numbers sound so great, yet conveniently leave out all the intangibles that cause the drop in sales and pirating in the first place. If you need any help, look no further than the big dogs who've been on this piracy fail-crusade for decades.

On another note: Yes, everybody who values a purchase of $500 must be too poor to own something like that in the first place. You have solved poverty via stereotyping; all poor people are terrible at managing funds.

[Deuce]

Do publishers/developers recieve any money from gamestop sales. Serious yet slightly rhetorical question, because they may actually, but I doubt it.

No, because they can't legally require retailers to split the profits from used game sales unless under contract. Contracts, which I don't believe exist at all for the current gen.

[Tyrath]

Xenoblade 2 or something. They can't make Xenogears I think?

This. It's just another Xeno game. Probably will be what makes me buy the Wii U

[Exoduso]

So, being a gamer that has tons of friends who game, none of which pirate their games on consoles, I'm curious, how many people actually pirate on console? MS makes it seem like everybody and their fucking mom does it.

I'm not saying I agree with the approach, I'm telling you what goes through their heads, and that they have a reasonable reason to think that their sales are hurting because of it (even though the percentage of games actually being pirated is probably not that large anyways.)

[Minions]

Do publishers/developers recieve any money from gamestop sales. Serious yet slightly rhetorical question, because they may actually, but I doubt it.

Not a penny on used sales. Though I don't think any other industry on this planet makes money off second hand sales.... cars, chairs, movies, or otherwise.

[Correction]

Do publishers/developers recieve any money from gamestop sales. Serious yet slightly rhetorical question, because they may actually, but I doubt it.

They make some money when people buy online passes for used games, but clearly not as much as they want.
Gamestop also sells new games and its used game trade ins that fund those purchases for a lot of gamers, so cutting off or restricting that cirulation of cash in any way will cause some marginal loss of new game sales. Nobody's come up with numbers for that but I doubt it's significant, just throwing it in there.

[6souls]

I probably missed this, but Amazon has most of the titles shown up for pre-order now.

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node...6226A14147B678

[aurik]

Ok, that's bullshit, because 90% of users don't pirate their games. The numbers are probably less than 10% of users, because guess what? The majority of consumers don't have the know-how or care to pirate a console game. I know plenty of people who still don't even know what torrenting is. In fact, I know plenty of people who are concerned about pirating because they believe they'll get caught doing it.

DRM is an attempt at getting the lower denomination sales, but in actuality, if developer's and publishers make great games they practically sell themselves through word of mouth. If the average consumer doesn't have the money to purchase a game new, well guess what, they aren't going to buy it, ever.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/1...-rate-near-90/
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/...use-of-piracy/

90% is bullshit?

[Headspace]

The problem I noticed was that they're assuming that out of 100 million people interested in the game, that if only 10 million bought it, the piracy rate is (90%). Just because the people were interested, doesn't mean they were going to buy it and doesn't mean they are going to pirate it. And just because someone pirates it, doesn't meant they were going to buy it regardless.

Unless in the example, that it was going to be a confirmed 100 million people buying the game, and that if they only sold 10 million copies that the other 90 million had to have pirated it.

[Akiyama]

I don't think people who are buying a Xbox One think its a "positive" thing; I, specifically, just don't see it as too much of a negative to deter buying it.

If it screws over people who can't afford internet or live in a shitty area, that sucks for them.

Just because you and a few guys here on BG forums think it's not a negative thing, doesn't mean those that don't have well paying jobs or what have you don't.

But I see your point.

[Headspace]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/1...-rate-near-90/
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/...use-of-piracy/

90% is bullshit?

The question is open: would the pirates have bought the game otherwise? Did the lack of DRM lead to more sales? The amount a game is pirated isn't important—lost sales are—but these things are nearly impossible to quantify.

the first question is an important one. Just because they pirated, didn't mean they would have bought it otherwise.

[Gwynplaine]

SE live stream is up

[GoggleHead]

The problem I noticed was that they're assuming that out of 100 million people interested in the game, that if only 10 million bought it, the piracy rate is (90%). Just because the people were interested, doesn't mean they were going to buy it and doesn't mean they are going to pirate it. And just because someone pirates it, doesn't meant they were going to buy it regardless.

Unless in the example, that it was going to be a confirmed 100 million people buying the game, and that if they only sold 10 million copies that the other 90 million had to have pirated it.

And let's not discount the fact that implementing DRM can actually convert potential customers into people who decide not to buy your game because fuck DRM(regardless of whether or not they go on to pirate it, it's still a lost sale).

[Seraph]

I like the fact that we are ignoring when DRM hurts the company/brand reputation because it requires unnecessary bullshit for the legitimate consumer, they get fed up and stop buying it, and the company blames the lost sales on piracy and embraces the very thing that often screws them in the first place. It's like the abusive husband wondering why she left him, and then assuming it was because he wasn't controlling enough.

[Necronus]

Ok, that's bullshit, because 90% of users don't pirate their games. The numbers are probably less than 10% of users, because guess what? The majority of consumers don't have the know-how or care to pirate a console game. I know plenty of people who still don't even know what torrenting is. In fact, I know plenty of people who are concerned about pirating because they believe they'll get caught doing it.

DRM is an attempt at getting the lower denomination sales, but in actuality, if developer's and publishers make great games they practically sell themselves through word of mouth. If the average consumer doesn't have the money to purchase a game new, well guess what, they aren't going to buy it, ever.

To be fair to him, there have been several games with 90% piracy rates. On the other hand, most games don't have that and need entirely different math than his example.

[Deuce]

They make some money when people buy online passes for used games, but clearly not as much as they want.
Gamestop also sells new games and its used game trade ins that fund those purchases for a lot of gamers, so cutting off or restricting that cirulation of cash in any way will cause some marginal loss of new game sales. Nobody's come up with numbers for that but I doubt it's significant, just throwing it in there.

Gamestop worldwide sales in 2012 were roughly $8.9 Billion with used game sales being $2.43 billion. 70% of trade-ins were applied to new sales. To put it simply, the type of DRM that MS is pushing for, would significantly impact Gamestop globally.

[Brill Weave]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/1...-rate-near-90/
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/...use-of-piracy/

90% is bullshit?

C'mon son, pulling an article about World of Goo? He's saying in direct reference to the 360/PS3. Pirating on the PC has been around forever. I can understand and even get on board with DRM for PC. Because it's so rampant. However, it is not prevalent on any of the console systems. And it is no way in hell even in the same ballpark as 90%. If you're going to use piracy on PC as your main point of defense as to why DRM belongs on console systems I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.

[octopus]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/1...-rate-near-90/
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/...use-of-piracy/

90% is bullshit?

Eh... I can see indie/PC game piracy being high, but to associate that with console gaming piracy I don't think that's fair. At least I don't think a majority of console gamers pirated (not the current gen anyway).