Things Broken By 12/12/12 Update (Clipper questions go here)

[Jem]

this ^

Must be something specific to yours and Draylo's computer. I always boot up with sandbox on Jem out of habit and I haven't logged in my mule for like 3-4 weeks. Not had any crashes whatsoever.

Or do you mean it crashes if you log 2 chars in and then logout the other one?

[Draylo]

Just crashes with one character and won't reopen without crashing. Not sure what to do.

[RedMage1993]

Atom0s from the FFEvo site gave me his Signature Scanner code and I've used it to fix the crashes as well as make Cupper a little more resilient against FFXI updates. If anyone wants to see what the changes are and how it works, look at SigScan.cs and the Player.cs GetAddress method. I'm not going to be playing much anymore so the FFEvo developers will be maintaining Cupper from now on. The newest version will always be located at http://www.ffevo.net/files/file/189-cupper/ as far as I'm aware.


You are well within your right to withhold source code for whatever reasons you have but suggesting that people don't learn from looking at and experimenting with code is absolutely asinine. Spoonfeeding is when you only provide an .exe and say "I'll take care of the rest".

lolk

[Kohan]

Providing personal assistance and providing actual code are both legitimate means of helping people learn how to program. Don't let this discussion devolve into an opinionated argument about whose methods are better, as everyone learns differently, which means that every teaching method has merit.

[RedMage1993]

All right, here's my response, then.

Before I begin, just explaining why I only put "lolk." Honestly, I didn't know how to respond because I didn't feel like getting into another argument just because I had to explain myself but, I also didn't know what to say. But here goes what I was thinking when I read your post, cpu:

You are well within your right to withhold source code for whatever reasons you have but suggesting that people don't learn from looking at and experimenting with code is absolutely asinine. Spoonfeeding is when you only provide an .exe and say "I'll take care of the rest".

I wasn't suggesting that people do not learn from looking at code. I have actually learned quite a bit before using this method. However, I do not agree with your definition of spoonfeeding.
From here, you see that spoonfeeding can be when you just give people all of your code. While I do see it as a possible way for people to learn, I do not believe it is a way a good way for someone to learn in this case. You copied that quote out of context from post #355, currently on page 3.

"2. look at what people have tried doing /without/ me handing out the code. they've disassembled it and packed it with trojans.
i fear people will claim to be me again and go handing out 'newer' copies of the program with nasty additions.

3. i don't simply give away code like this. i have my reasons. i had to learn how to do a good 90% of it on my own and that is why
i offer to teach instead of spoonfeed. ive already helped a few people make actual exact copies, actually. but see, that's the thing,
i'm teaching, and i know the person a bit better when its a 1-on-1 lesson. let me toss a 4th one in here; my code looks as ugly as the
sentences i type and my english : P" (it really does look ugly, no comments and in c++ with poor OOP)

I feel like spoonfeeding leads to higher chances of learning through memorization, btw. (At some point, yes, everything is a matter of memorization. But the important thing is what is
being memorized.) I'd prefer if anyone were to say they learned from me, that they actually did learn from me. I want anyone who learns from me to understand why it is that I
wrote something, rather than leave them most likely guessing.

Of course, that is only a matter of opinion from me, and I am not claiming that this is the way that things need to be done in order to work. It's just the way I am, and
nothing you say can change that. There are pros/cons for both methods.

[gaira]

like it or not, clipper is doing perfectly fine with or without you. this isn't meant to discredit any previous contributions you've made, just honest appraisal of the situation as it stands now. yes the keylogger clones are unfortunate, but nothing new and avoidable with some care. whether or not you release your personal source, and the argument why, are pretty much irrelevant at this point.

[nikia]

Normally I try to stay out of the things but this is how I see it. He created a wonderful app that makes this game FAR more enjoyable. He then decided to share with us his work and takes time to interact with us. He could have simply made the app and let us rot without it.

He wrote the app and doesn't need to feel any pressure to make it open source.

Regardless of if other variations exist or not his is the only one I currently trust and it is trust in my eyes he earned.

I personally am grateful for his work and hope he knows it.
Thank you.

[nervous]

The idea of clipper may very well be doing fine without Redmage. That said, had Clipper never existed, I seriously doubt Cupper would exist now, and I think the community generally owes him a large debt of gratitude, directly for clipper and indirectly for cupper.

His program made XI more fun/playable for me than almost any other program, and I'm very grateful for his contributions. I'm mystified at the treatment he's received. The number of people who were upset when clipper broke seems a pretty clear indicator of how many players he impacted, and he stuck his legal neck out to provide an update. I'd think he would be met with near unconditional positive regard.

I've said it before, but thanks redmage, for what you did for the game.

[Shenrien]

That said, had Clipper never existed, I seriously doubt Cupper would exist now, and I think the community generally owes him a large debt of gratitude, directly for clipper and indirectly for cupper.

If one person wouldn't have come forward to do it for the community because they didn't want to pay a subscription for a bot just to use the JA0wait, flee hacks, and position movement hacks, then another individual would have come along to do it. The name probably would probably not be the same but do not underestimate a gaming community, if it can be broken or exploited people will find a way, and distribute it for profit or for free.

[Kohan]

Either way, there's nothing wrong with thanking someone who did make something useful. While RedMage's Clipper wasn't the first, he did combine various tools to create his version, and people became accustomed to using it. I know that I am one of those people, as I have used it for ages now, and personally cannot stand dealing with PC/NPC collision. I don't flee hack, nor do I use any of the other functions, but I have long turned to his version of Clipper for that functionality.

That said, let's stop debating the various teaching/coding methods and get back to what's important, which is noting and/or working on broken tools, plug-ins, and so on. This conversation has returned to civility, but the more we fill it with unrelated discussion, the more we're going to see newer readers coming in and asking "how do i mine Clipper," which we want to avoid.

If you want to ask or otherwise talk to the various programmers about their methods, code, or anything else, please PM them and continue the conversations there.

[RedMage1993]

Jumper 2 1005 Out

Just forgot to leave an important check in 1004 that made sure that the POS you were jumping to
was actually for the area you were currently in.

[RedMage1993]

Clipper 1012 Is Out

Improved JA0Wait (no delay when attacking/disengaging or when raised, etc., kind of like Icon's @ FFEvo)

[RedMage1993]

I finally got to test on Dual box and I did see some of the problems (prolly not all) that people were having and have already begun
to fix them all. And some small ones that don't really affect the usage in the game.

Just an update that I am working on a fix for the dual boxing problems. If you have experienced any problems please tell me so I can see if I can
replicate the bug. Thanks.

[Darkmagi]

Clipper 1012 Is Out

Improved JA0Wait (no delay when attacking/disengaging or when raised, etc.)

!!! Awesome!

[Selamis]

Regarding Windower crashing from the December update...I've gone and updated all the plugins that I had originally that were offered still on windower.net and I noticed there is no option to upgrade TParty, ConsoleBG, Distance, Silence, and TimeStamp. Not all plugins I used anyway, but just curious how come those particular ones don't have links to download? Also, do I need to get the latest hook? For some reason I still crash upon /shutdown or clicking shutdown manually from the menu.

Nevermind, fixed the issue!

[Imoq]

For some reason I still crash upon /shutdown or clicking shutdown manually from the menu.

Nevermind, fixed the issue!

My Windower still crashes whenever I /shutdown, but since it doesn't affect me I haven't bothered in look for a solution. Is there a quick fix for this?

Edit: only happens on home computer, not work computer and they do share same configuration, plugins, etc. via dropbox.

[Selamis]

My Windower still crashes whenever I /shutdown, but since it doesn't affect me I haven't bothered in look for a solution. Is there a quick fix for this?

Edit: only happens on home computer, not work computer and they do share same configuration, plugins, etc. via dropbox.

I just redownloaded every plugin that I already had and copied them into the old folder and it seemed to fix it, that or I just got lucky the five times I tested it after updating the new files. Some didn't have options to upgrade so if I end up crashing again it's either gonna be those or windower itself, I dunno but I'll see if it happens again.

[Obsidian]

I only seem to crash if I've loaded logger at some point. It's pretty random whether it'll happen or not.

[Plow]

so, all my plugins appear to load and shit, and trying to manually load them just gets "already loaded," but the only one that's even showing up at all is distance

I hadn't been on since august (shit was fine then), and I downloaded new hook and all the key addons. Is there some big thing I'm missing, or do I need to just redo everything?

[Dngnhack]

You have to redownload recast and possibly pettp if you use it. Same thing happened to me.