Salvage II - Slavage Harder

[Asymptotic]

Ive cleared middle3+armored, then 2 rooms and wound up with a chariot.

Have you posted details of the rest of the run?

[NynJa]

It might be somewhere in this thread if i did, i cant really remember would be page 4-5 if anything

[Helel]

I've noticed a few people who have cleared all the chariots and not gotten khim to pop. It's either random, or it has something to do with previous floors (ramparts perhaps), total # of archaic machinery killed, time (though I think people have debunked the time theory), something else.

One thing of note: Immunobreaks seemed to happen on every single resist on my mule RDM. I was able to land every enfeeble within two casts. Gravity I-II sticks on Hydra as well, not that you really need it. He moves slow enough to kite if you wipe.

[Asymptotic]

Random just seems unlikely when we do the same exact thing every time and get HQ while others have trouble popping it.

[Viar]

I've noticed a few people who have cleared all the chariots and not gotten khim to pop. It's either random, or it has something to do with previous floors (ramparts perhaps)

Highly doubt it's rampart, killed all ramparts and all NMs earlier but not chariot and didn't pop.

[macross]

BR2 again, this time went E NW W.
Floor 1, East, killed 2 fly, kille 1 pudding, killed 2 gobo, 2 dahak.
floor 2, went SE NE NW SW open W door, went back kill occultst.
skip middle west pup, killed nw pup, killed pld NM, went up NW
ran by floor 3, killed 2 gears, kiled 3 gears in big room and spawn rampart, killed it and 3 triple gears to unlock str/int, went up to floor 4, around 55 minute mark here.

Floor 4, killed the 2 triple gears same time best I could, looks like 7 sec apart, NM pops, drop 2x tutelary.

Killed chariot, killed 2 acro, went link dead. Came back killed NM acro, buff up, open door
killed 3x triple gear fast as I can, NQ pops, drops 2 armor, kill hq, get 2 armor as well.

Fight #   Enemy                   Killed?   Killed By           Start Time   End Time   Fight Length   Exp   Chain
1         Fly                     True      Macross                4:01 AM    4:03 AM       00:02:17     0       0
2         Fly                     True      Macross                4:04 AM    4:07 AM       00:03:01     0       0
3         Black Pudding           True      Macross                4:08 AM    4:10 AM       00:02:16     0       0
4         Moblin Armsman          True      Macross                4:11 AM    4:13 AM       00:01:27     0       0
5         Moblin Armsman          True      Macross                4:13 AM    4:15 AM       00:02:09     0       0
6         Throat Tearer Tregotroq True      Macross                4:15 AM    4:18 AM       00:02:23     0       0
7         Dahak                   True      Macross                4:19 AM    4:21 AM       00:02:16     0       0
8         Smouldering Dahak       True      Macross                4:21 AM    4:25 AM       00:03:37     0       0
9         Troll Stoneworker       True      Macross                4:27 AM    4:29 AM       00:01:45     0       0
10        Troll Cameist           True      Macross                4:30 AM    4:31 AM       00:01:41     0       0
11        Troll Gemologist        True      Macross                4:32 AM    4:33 AM       00:01:43     0       0
12        Troll Smelter           True      Macross                4:34 AM    4:35 AM       00:00:56     0       0
13        Troll Occultist         True      Macross                4:35 AM    4:37 AM       00:01:54     0       0
14        Troll Engraver          True      Macross                4:38 AM    4:39 AM       00:00:39     0       0
15        Troll's Automaton       False                            4:38 AM    4:58 AM       00:19:40     0       0
16        Troll Guardian          True      Macross                4:40 AM    4:43 AM       00:03:29     0       0
17        Archaic Gear            True      Macross                4:46 AM    4:46 AM       00:00:42     0       0
18        Archaic Gear            True      Macross                4:48 AM    4:48 AM       00:00:19     0       0
19        Archaic Gear            True      Macross                4:48 AM    4:49 AM       00:00:17     0       0
20        Archaic Gear            True      Macross                4:49 AM    4:49 AM       00:00:28     0       0
21        Archaic Rampart         True      Macross                4:50 AM    4:51 AM       00:00:58     0       0
22        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:51 AM    4:51 AM       00:00:37     0       0
23        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:51 AM    4:52 AM       00:00:20     0       0
24        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:52 AM    4:52 AM       00:00:19     0       0
25        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:54 AM    4:55 AM       00:01:05     0       0
26        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:55 AM    4:55 AM       00:00:07     0       0
27        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                4:55 AM    4:56 AM       00:01:18     0       0
28        Long-Bowed Chariot      True      Macross                4:57 AM    4:59 AM       00:01:27     0       0
29        Acrolith                True      Macross                4:59 AM    5:00 AM       00:01:13     0       0
30        Acrolith                False                            5:01 AM    5:19 AM       00:17:50     0       0
31        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                5:08 AM    5:09 AM       00:00:49     0       0
32        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                5:09 AM    5:09 AM       00:00:11     0       0
33        Archaic Gears           True      Macross                5:09 AM    5:09 AM       00:00:17     0       0
34        Archaic Rampart         True      Macross                5:10 AM    5:11 AM       00:00:53     0       0
35        Cerberus                True      Macross                5:11 AM    5:17 AM       00:05:55     0       0
36        Cerberus Seether        True      Macross                5:20 AM    5:29 AM       00:09:13     0       0

Here are the kill times. Look like it took 1:17 to kill the 3 triple gears. Under 90 sec from door opening to kill all 3 anyhow.

floor 4 was cleared in around 15 minutes if that matters who knows.

Item Drops
5 copy of ritualistic plans
1 cotton coin purse
12 piece of alexandrite
3 copy of tutelary plans
1 genta hara-ate
1 Neit's crown
1 pair of Neit's cuffs
1 linen coin purse
1 pair of Idi's ledelsens

[GeneyusTitan]

Has anyone NOT been able to get HQ after clearing chariots on F6?

Byrth and I clear all the NQ chariots then do Armored then the rampart. Our first run we did not get Khim, the next we cleared the 16 gears on the floor before but no ramparts and got the pop. Our last run we did an entirely different path (South on third floor) but still cleared all the gears/chariots the same way and got pop again.

[Banalaty]

Arra khim theory:

All I can think of at this point is maybe its kill some of each type of archaic machinery.

Its been popped with only AC killed on that floor which means its not kill all chariot.
Its been popped only killing a few single gears on 5th.
Its bern popped while only killing a few ramps that pop triple gears.(covers ramp and triples)
Most everyone killed some # of acroliths every run anyway.

A full clear is obviously not necessary.

all i can figure that's left is either:
Kill X number of archaic machines. Seems unlikely since khim has popped and failed to on some widely ranging runs for #s.

Kill 1(or more) of each type of machinery (acro, gear, triple, chariot, ramp). This would explain most of my failed runs as i have focused on individual types on most and never all of them and explains why 'full clears' seem to be working.

Otherwise its some annoying unintuitive crap based on what portal/paths/mobs you kill based on where chigoe pops or some other weird mechanism. Seems overly complex way to do it.

Im going to try killing a handful of each archaic mob today and see what happens.
_______________________
Edit: well shit gene just said he popped without killing any ramparts (or triples by extension) so much for that.

[Arthars]

according to some JP site, it seems althought all zones can drop all type of 45s, some parts is more "common" than others

eg. in zone A, body is ◎　while leg is 〇 vice versa

something like rare tag vs very rare but both still exist in same zone

[Slycer]

There is a part of me that looks at the clear pop conditions in other zones (like Zhayolm and Bhaflau) and wants to believe that such a condition exists for Arrapago. There's another part of me that thinks it's an "easy zone" relative to some of the other ones I've done, so perhaps it's just a random chance of popping to balance out how easy it is to get to the boss.

I wouldn't say the pop conditions in Bhaflau are very clear. The same time thing might be a red herring generated by the Archaic Gear earlier in the floor; we've already seen a few accounts against it. I'd say we should still be looking at other possible methods for Bhaflau. The only one I would say is basically confirmed is Zhayolm (clearing 6F central room makes the north rampart spawn Hydra). While the development team is not always logical, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that they would essentially allow you to guarantee a Linen in Zhayolm and not the other three areas.

[Slycer]

according to some JP site, it seems althought all zones can drop all type of 45s, some parts is more "common" than others

eg. in zone A, body is ◎　while leg is 〇 vice versa

something like rare tag vs very rare but both still exist in same zone

None of the zones drops all 45s, I'm positive -- JP site doesn't mean it's correct. Each one drops in only two areas. The frequency, like you said, changes depending on the boss. For example, Neit's Crown seems really common off Dvergr (it seems that heads in general are most common). The distribution of pieces is NOT even, however. For example, Bhaflau Remnants II has about 15 of the level 45 pieces, while Zhayolm Remnants II only has about 10 of them.

If you search FFXIDB.com for individual level 45 components, you'll see that not one of the 25 of them drops in more than two of the areas (like I said in a previous post, I checked all 25). After hundreds of boss kills, that's no longer a coincidence.

[Classikmage]

Arra khim theory:

All I can think of at this point is maybe its kill some of each type of archaic machinery.

Its been popped with only AC killed on that floor which means its not kill all chariot.
Its been popped only killing a few single gears on 5th.
Its bern popped while only killing a few ramps that pop triple gears.(covers ramp and triples)
Most everyone killed some # of acroliths every run anyway.

A full clear is obviously not necessary.

all i can figure that's left is either:
Kill X number of archaic machines. Seems unlikely since khim has popped and failed to on some widely ranging runs for #s.

Kill 1(or more) of each type of machinery (acro, gear, triple, chariot, ramp). This would explain most of my failed runs as i have focused on individual types on most and never all of them and explains why 'full clears' seem to be working.

Otherwise its some annoying unintuitive crap based on what portal/paths/mobs you kill based on where chigoe pops or some other weird mechanism. Seems overly complex way to do it.

Im going to try killing a handful of each archaic mob today and see what happens.
_______________________
Edit: well shit gene just said he popped without killing any ramparts (or triples by extension) so much for that.

Just finished AR a few minutes ago.

4th Floor:Killed all Qutrubs + Boss Qutrub/Killed the 2 Acroliths + Boss Acrolith
5th Floor: Killed all gears/ramparts.
6th Floor: Just pulled Armored Chariot, than went straight for the rampart. Khimaira popped 1st try.
7th Floor: Killed HQ Khimaira.


Side Note: RDM/BLM rocks in New Salvage. The beast is back!

[Taint]

Just got our first HQ cerb of our first 3 BR2 attempts. What was different about this time was that we made it to 4F and cleared the 3 gears in rampart room in less than 60 minutes. And a damned good thing too since our COR dc'd and we lost a bunch of time on NQ. After beating HQ, the COR who dc'd did NOT get the title, but the rest of us did. This is the second zone where he's not gotten the title - he didn't get title from HQ Khim, but DID get it from HQ Dvergr. Anyone know what's up with that?

Definitely not an overall time thing. Could be time based on the rampart floor though. We had some silly wipes on our last run and still got HQ Cerb.

[Rehn]

Haven't kept up with the thread, but apparently the 2 acroliths on F4 (the 2 that spawn NM acrolith on N side) can drop cotton purses o_O Killed 1 and it just plopped a purse.

[Byrthnoth]

When you killed it and got your purse, was it in 2-leg mode?

[Rehn]

If you mean before it falls to pieces and is reduced to just a walking of legs, then yes, it was still fully assembled when purse dropped.

[Slycer]

There's a lot of stuff that has a low drop rate on purse, I wouldn't read too much into it. We got a cotton purse off LBC also (Bhaf 4F), who normally has no other drops. I think all NMs and then some additional machinery mobs (Acroliths, notably) have some low drop rate on purse.

[enoch]

did he exit via the porter after killing them too? Iirc thats the only way, or maybe thats for mythic. Idk z.z

All of us but him got titles as soon as the HQ died. Regardless, on first HQ win for each zone we've exited "properly" so the mission doesn't get "failed"

[Rehn]

I'm currently 5/5 on NQ khim now. This is the exact path I take every time:

1F: Kill all vultures in very first room, kill lamia in adjacent tunnel, then head south towards leeches. Kill all leeches in first room, kill lamia in adjacent tunnel, then floor up at the end of the leech hall. I don't kill anything else after the lamia.
2F: Kill 2 lamia in starting room, kill 4 hallway gears, then kill NM gear.
3F: I always take East path. I kill NM acrolith that spawns amongst qutrubs, then kill the gear amongst the lamias. Kill NM gear inside the N teleporter room.
4F: Kill 2 acrolith to the west, then the NM acrolith. Kill the lamia darter/fatedealer, then lamia spoliator. Usually kill linked lamias as well.
5F: I ignore every room of gear until I get to the main room. If I aggro any, I'll kill those, but I ignore them since they aren't 100% alex (seemed too low for me to bother). Kill all reinforcement gears from all 4 ramparts, but I skip the rampart themselves.
6F: Kill all archaic chariot and armored chariot. I have killed armored first, 4th, and even last. I don't think order matters. Then aggro rampart and make it spawn reinforcement, which for me has been 5 NQ khims in a row.
7F: HQ khim of course.

I have done this every single run with no exception (aside from links/aggros).

[Helel]

I'm currently 5/5 on NQ khim now. This is the exact path I take every time:

1F: Kill all vultures in very first room, kill lamia in adjacent tunnel, then head south towards leeches. Kill all leeches in first room, kill lamia in adjacent tunnel, then floor up at the end of the leech hall. I don't kill anything else after the lamia.
2F: Kill 2 lamia in starting room, kill 4 hallway gears, then kill NM gear.
3F: I always take East path. I kill NM acrolith that spawns amongst qutrubs, then kill the gear amongst the lamias. Kill NM gear inside the N teleporter room.
4F: Kill 2 acrolith to the west, then the NM acrolith. Kill the lamia darter/fatedealer, then lamia spoliator. Usually kill linked lamias as well.
5F: I ignore every room of gear until I get to the main room. If I aggro any, I'll kill those, but I ignore them since they aren't 100% alex (seemed too low for me to bother). Kill all reinforcement gears from all 4 ramparts, but I skip the rampart themselves.
6F: Kill all archaic chariot and armored chariot. I have killed armored first, 4th, and even last. I don't think order matters. Then aggro rampart and make it spawn reinforcement, which for me has been 5 NQ khims in a row.
7F: HQ khim of course.

I have done this every single run with no exception (aside from links/aggros).

You + Classikmage + me have killed some or all of the mobs on 5th floor + chariots and always had NQ khim pop on 6th floor. Someone said they did not kill chariots and it did not pop, so it seems possible that the # of archaic machinery killed increases the chance of khim popping.