Salvage II - Slavage Harder

**Banalaty** · 2012-12-20 16:44

It certainly isn't a hard # as I have killed a handful fo solo gears, no ramps, and armored and had khim pop, but also killed 16/16 solo gear, no ramps and armored and he DIDNT pop. It can't be a flat #. 'increasing chance' could explain it if I just got lucky that 1 time with few hears + armored pop. Otherwise its something completely unrelated to gears (like time or something)

**Classikmage** · 2012-12-20 17:04

Originally Posted by Banalaty

It certainly isn't a hard # as I have killed a handful fo solo gears, no ramps, and armored and had khim pop, but also killed 16/16 solo gear, no ramps and armored and he DIDNT pop. It can't be a flat #. 'increasing chance' could explain it if I just got lucky that 1 time with few hears + armored pop. Otherwise its something completely unrelated to gears (like time or something)

I doubt it's time, unless it has a very large window. We got the 10 min warning while fighting NQ Khimaira.

**Rehn** · 2012-12-20 17:19

Originally Posted by Banalaty

It certainly isn't a hard # as I have killed a handful fo solo gears, no ramps, and armored and had khim pop, but also killed 16/16 solo gear, no ramps and armored and he DIDNT pop. It can't be a flat #. 'increasing chance' could explain it if I just got lucky that 1 time with few hears + armored pop. Otherwise its something completely unrelated to gears (like time or something)

It could be tied to # of NMs killed prior to 6F (sorry if it's been mentioned). How many NMs do you kill before 6F?

**NynJa** · 2012-12-20 17:26

Originally Posted by Rehn

It could be tied to # of NMs killed prior to 6F (sorry if it's been mentioned). How many NMs do you kill before 6F?

people have gotten chariot full clearing NM's

I'm leaning towards khim being bugged, OR...people have engaged rampart before the last chariot despawned, which is affecting what mob gets spawned from rampart? Just throwing out ideas at this point, as shitty as they may be, because everything that makes sense seems to not affect it.

**Slycer** · 2012-12-20 18:06

Out of curiosity, why are people so focused on Arrapago? My impression from all of this is that the NQ boss conditions for Bhaflau and SSR aren't any clearer. I haven't seen any SSR or Bhaflau theories that haven't been disproven by at least one other account. The only one which I think we've pretty much pinpointed is Zhayolm (i.e. clearing the center room of 6F). That's the thread of hope for non-randomness that I'm hanging onto right now; if someone disproves that I think I'm going to throw my hands up.

**Yugl** · 2012-12-20 18:18

Arrapago is the best looking wiki Remnants page of course.

**Banalaty** · 2012-12-20 18:24

im focusing on it because I need a shit load of skadi/ares. If I can figure out boss, then my Mnk/thf+rdm/whm dual box will be nice Alex and plans I need. If boss is random BS then I'll go thf+rdm and th up the plan nms and gtfo. I haven't done any other runs yet.

**Byrthnoth** · 2012-12-20 18:26

Arrapago is really easy to multi-box, too. Bhaflau sounds similarly easy, Zhayolm is pretty easy, but SSR is harder.

I killed the final chariot before the Floor 6 Rampart in Arrapago 48 minutes into the zone a few days ago multiboxing DNC/THF, BRD/WHM, WHM/BLM. Hit all the NMs on the way up and got a lot of Ares/Skadi papers. The boss also seems to drop the two Skadi pieces I want the most, so I could cap out on the stuff I care about just by doing Arrapago.

**Darkmagi** · 2012-12-20 18:27

There is absolutely not any sort of randomness to Bhaflau, I don't have boss triggers pinned down, but I'm 8/8 on NQ/HQ cerbs. I do the exact same thing every single run. I kill every single monster on the way, and kill them as fast as possible. I go west/north west the entire way.

**Lyltia** · 2012-12-20 18:39

So every NM pops along the way every time? Have you tried this on any other path? Define every single monster along the way; do you kill all of the trolls on 2F, or just the ones in your path? Can you elaborate further on "I kill them as fast as possible?" Possible kill speed varies a lot depending on what you're bringing. Need a lot more info before you can make such a broad statement.

**Byrthnoth** · 2012-12-20 18:43

It might be useful if people started posting the Fights tab of Kparser, especially if they're using Nynja's .dat swaps so all the monster names are unique.

**Darkmagi** · 2012-12-20 18:57

Originally Posted by Lyltia

So every NM pops along the way every time? Have you tried this on any other path? Define every single monster along the way; do you kill all of the trolls on 2F, or just the ones in your path? Can you elaborate further on "I kill them as fast as possible?" Possible kill speed varies a lot depending on what you're bringing. Need a lot more info before you can make such a broad statement.

Sorry, had included my paths in previous posts. I kill both wamouracampa, both wamouras, both goblins+NM, Dahak+NM on floor 1. I kill the 4 trolls +Occultist on floor2, and clear the 2 pup trolls on the way to north west room+PLD NM. I don't kill the troll guarding the southern room. I kill the gears on the way to the west room on floor3, and everything in the room with the rampart. I don't kill the rampart until killing the trigears that pop, if that has any relevance. On floor4 I make sure to kill the 2 trigears that pop the NM as fast as possible and at the same time(Though, I think the same time thing has been debunked). Chariot, Acrolith x2+NM, and then the 3 trigears that pop the cerberus rampart as fast as possible. My setup is MNK WHM(mule)+THF generally. Kill speed isn't extraordinarily fast, but it's not slow.

I would use kparser, but my computer is completely awful and I struggle to dualbox as is. I can get fight length though if that would be useful.

**Lyltia** · 2012-12-20 19:17

Right on, thanks for the additional info. I'm really leaning towards kill speed on certain mobs being the trigger for NMs in this zone, are you able to run Logger at the very least? If I can get more samples than just my own, might be able to get a working hypothesis going.

**NynJa** · 2012-12-20 19:27

Pyric Bulwark is fucking lame

**irdum** · 2012-12-20 20:54

I'm completely stumped on conditions for popping NQ Khimaira. 0/7.

We go NIN/DNC THF/NIN RDM/WHM. (NIN and THF are 2box)

-We always kill all NMs.
-We tried E and W path for 3F.
-We killed a 5F Rampart and all the triple gears it pops.
-We completely unlocked pathos pre 6F.
-We hit 6F under 60 mins.
-We cleared all 5F single gears (16) + all chariots 6F + Armored then Rampart.
-We always engage rampart that's supposed to pop NQ.
-We tried X number of kills per floor/mob to where enemies leveled up considerably.

Seems like a lot people are 100% or 0% on NQ. Worse than Hauteclaire.

**Byrthnoth** · 2012-12-20 21:02

Originally Posted by irdum

-We tried X number of kills per floor/mob to where enemies leveled up considerably.

What?

**macross** · 2012-12-20 21:41

Need to start recording kill speeds, it could be triggers. Nin and thief not gonna be good dps etc, maybe killing some stuff a bit too slow? Something like my fight tab I posted can do wonders for debunking time based theories.

hq cerb usually doenst take that long but he kept spammming houpland at the end lol like at 1% health.

does twilight scythe hit through pyric bulwark?

**Protey** · 2012-12-20 21:49

Originally Posted by Slycer

Little more info on 2F central NM in SSR (Windwalker). It definitely has something to do with killing on 2F, and may have a precondition on 1F. Here's what we did:

Full clear 1F east path. Literally everything we could, including central rampart and all its mobs.
2F - east side of center loop. Killed the four ramparts on the east side of the loop and their Ashu. I was watching personally in the south room where I figured it would pop, and the instant the last Ashu reinforcement from the fourth rampart died, the NM rampart popped immediately. It was not up before that, so if 1F is related to the pop condition it isn't the only pop condition.

Thoughts? For people who have popped it, do you know exactly what caused the pop?

Edit: We were not killing things especially quickly (or slowly), so I don't know that time is a factor.

I just did this: full clear 1F east side (apkallu nm side), nothing was left alive to include that one lone rampart near the portal. I went up to 2f and cleared the 4 ramparts on east side of loop. walked all the way around the loop, no ramparts other than the 4 roving ones on the west side.

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Arrapago is really easy to multi-box, too. Bhaflau sounds similarly easy, Zhayolm is pretty easy, but SSR is harder.

I tri-box SSR no problem as mnk thf whm. mnk tank and puller ftw.

**irdum** · 2012-12-20 21:50

Originally Posted by macross

Need to start recording kill speeds, it could be triggers. Nin and thief not gonna be good dps etc, maybe killing some stuff a bit too slow? Something like my fight tab I posted can do wonders for debunking time based theories.

hq cerb usually doenst take that long but he kept spammming houpland at the end lol like at 1% health.

does twilight scythe hit through pyric bulwark?

We did BR 1/1 HQ.

NIN/DNC THF/NIN RDM/WHM (NIN THF 2box).

Killed all NMs + NQ/HQ Cerb. No DPS problems here.

9 Ritrualistic Plans too.

Arrapago II is what is stumping us.

**Lyltia** · 2012-12-20 21:59

Not that I/we don't appreciate the testimonials (keep em coming!), but at this stage, we need more detailed information than this.

Thread: Salvage II - Slavage Harder

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