Salvage II - Slavage Harder

**Banalaty** · 2012-12-27 10:29

Im going out on a limb and saying it's probably just kill speed on armored chariot. Most of the people that clear that floor do it really fast. I got khim when I killed chariot in a 2x dual boxer group, but only once dual box mnk+rdm (fellow dual boxer I went with hasn't ever got it by himself yet). Its the only thing that can explain how people have done so many variances in runs or imitated successful ones but had different results.

All I can figure is that it's timer from when armored is aggroed/claimed until death. It can't be any combination of mob kills because each possible set has basically been debunked at this point along with a host of other theories.

**Martel** · 2012-12-27 11:26

The 3rd floor Archaic Gears NM in Zhayolm II can double drop Bloodshed plans.

Spoiler'ed for big.

Spoiler: show

**Nekradarken** · 2012-12-27 11:40

Originally Posted by Martel

The 3rd floor Archaic Gears NM in Zhayolm II can double drop Bloodshed plans.

Yea it can drop 2 plans. Also found out that you need to arrive at floor3 in 30 mins else the rampart will not pop Gears NM. Last run we arrived floor3 at 31 mins and the rampart only pop pugil (we aggroed 2 pugils if it matters). Today we arrived floor3 at 26 mins and rampart pop Gears NM.

**Martel** · 2012-12-27 12:01

Hmmm, I'll start watching time from now on. But I can't see it taking me more than 30 mins to get there unless something goes horribly wrong.

**Arthars** · 2012-12-27 12:06

btw, i finally did first ever zhalyom

notes:

1.Twilight scythe does go through physical shield
2. i placed myself on the left head, and then chopped it and moved to the right. broke both head and never seen nerve gas

aside from that idk anything abt the 2 mamool NM in 4F wiki is talking about O_O didnt get them to pop

also been doing salvage since day 1 and 100% on NQ/HQ now... so srsly idk wat to look out for on the pop condition... i usually left more than 10-15 mins per zone after cleared tho, and every run i just do the pretty "basic stuffs"

however the only NMs i have not seen in every runs is the SSR2 2F Center fomor, and BR2's 4 east gear

i have done everything on the gear and in all cases, there r times it popped and times it doesnt:
1. zone up and hit them asap
2. kill them under 1 min upon engaged
3. kill them below 3 mins from warp up to engaged and killed
4. kill same time
5. kill time apart

as for SSR2, i noticed the following:
1. When the rampart is not there the first time you enter the N-center room, it will never pop
2. sometimes i just pick 1 "side" before reaching the N-center room, if we get lucky with 2 abi in 1F, pretty much we kill the 4x rampart + 12 fomor fast and the rampart is there
3. *interesting point from past 3 SSR* if i dont get 2 abi in 1F, i will always use my whm mule to sac 1 side while everyone else run through to N-center room and the rampart has always been there (3/3 but i know thats not huge enough sample)

**suji** · 2012-12-27 13:24

Did SSR last night and we failed to pop the NQ Dvergr.. I know Radec pretty much sealed deal on the "defeat X ramparts theory" but I'll double-confirm that, we killed 43 ramparts total and no pop.

Spoiler: show

We spent quite a while on that floor since we killed all of the ramparts (chariot ones seemed to take forever) so I'm interested in the "open door within X minutes" theory which we'll test next time around.

Also, the evasion on that THF NM on the 2nd floor was much worse than I expected, ended up being a big time sink. If it turns out that killing him is important and time is tight, I'm definitely popping an antacid and switching to sushi just for him.

**macross** · 2012-12-27 14:07

Maybe shit is just 95% chance and we got unlucky ahaha.

**Xilk** · 2012-12-27 15:49

I only did 1 silver sea run, but we were low on time so we ran past everything on 4th floor. We didnt' kill a single mob.
Thf ran ahead and popped NQ Dvergr , but rest of us ran past that also and only killed HQ on boss floor.

I've been reading the entire thread since it started. I think the NQ Dvergr is just a matter of getting there on time. If you take a bst or ranger, you might be able to see if the rampart is there on widescan, and wait to see if it depops after a certain amount of time. That is, time since you started the floor. Though we did Kill the LAC on the previous floor also.

However, that wouldn't work if the mobs only pop when you open the door. In that case its just checking time. However I think its about time on the floor.
Has anyone run ahead to open door quickly and NOT gotten NQ Dvergr? I may have missed an account, but I don't think so.

AS far as arrapago goes, I've done that run several times and only on our latest run where we killed all the chariots on the floor first did we get NQ Khimmy.
Sure, it seems other players have gotten khimmy w/out killing all before. It seems the links to the old chariot bosses are most likely from what I've read on this thread.

**NynJa** · 2012-12-27 16:39

Arra dats on 6f:
Armored Chariot
Archaic Chariot1
Archaic Chariot2
Archaic Chariot3
Archaic Chariot4
Archaic Chariot5
Archaic Chariot6
Archaic Chariot7
Archaic Chariot8
Archaic Rampart10 <-rampart used to spawn chariot / NQ Khim...why is the chariot listed above it?
Khimaira
Khimaira Prideleader

SSR, near the end of 4f:
Archaic Rampart112
Archaic Gears
Archaic Gears
Archaic Gears
Archaic Gears
-
Acrolith
Archaic Rampart113
Archaic Chariot
-
Acrolith
Archaic Rampart114
Archaic Chariot
-
Acrolith
Archaic Rampart115
Archaic Chariot
-
Acrolith
Archaic Rampart116
-
Archaic Rampart117
Dvergr
Bloodthirsty Dvergr

I added the -'s myself, guessed them, but same logic applies, why are there mobs listed above ramparts? Thats not normal, anytime a mob summons another mob, it's listed underneath. And where does rampart 116 spawn?

**Helel** · 2012-12-27 17:07

I guess it's possibly tied to Armored Chariot kill speed, but there are people who have popped him without killing any chariots too. Maybe it just guarantees the pop.

**Slycer** · 2012-12-27 17:54

Originally Posted by Nekradarken

Yea it can drop 2 plans. Also found out that you need to arrive at floor3 in 30 mins else the rampart will not pop Gears NM. Last run we arrived floor3 at 31 mins and the rampart only pop pugil (we aggroed 2 pugils if it matters). Today we arrived floor3 at 26 mins and rampart pop Gears NM.

How many is "only" pugils? One time we were fairly unlucky I think it popped seven pugils before the NM came out. Pretty sure it's just a random chance at popping until it pops, and you can only pop on one side or the other.

**NynJa** · 2012-12-27 18:01

Yeha, its like bhaf ramparts...can get lucky or unlucky.

**Nekradarken** · 2012-12-27 18:47

Originally Posted by Slycer

How many is "only" pugils? One time we were fairly unlucky I think it popped seven pugils before the NM came out. Pretty sure it's just a random chance at popping until it pops, and you can only pop on one side or the other.

The rampart use other TP move instead of reinforcement when it runs out of mob.

**Nekradarken** · 2012-12-27 19:05

Originally Posted by NynJa

I added the -'s myself, guessed them, but same logic applies, why are there mobs listed above ramparts? Thats not normal, anytime a mob summons another mob, it's listed underneath. And where does rampart 116 spawn?

When I took the east path, Rampart116 poped (spawned nq Dvegr). So with the same logic, Rampart117 will pop if you take the west path.

**suji** · 2012-12-27 21:50

Originally Posted by NynJa

I added the -'s myself, guessed them, but same logic applies, why are there mobs listed above ramparts? Thats not normal, anytime a mob summons another mob, it's listed underneath. And where does rampart 116 spawn?

I doubt it's related but the room with three ramparts, just before where the NQ Dvergr rampart spawns, have different behavior than the rest. We killed one of them and it spawned the expected single chariot but when we fought the other two, they spawned nothing. I'm not sure if it's always this way or if it's random which one has the chariot or if it's some kind of "rampart roulette" or what, but perhaps that variability could affect the mob order in the dats.

I think we'll be doing SSR again tonight and if we see the same behavior, I'll add a note to the wiki since the information it has currently seems incorrect.

**Asymptotic** · 2012-12-27 23:24

Anyone else notice mob HP scaling with # of people? We accidentally entered AR2 with 3 today and we noticed the mobs dying significantly faster (with the same 2 DDs) than with our usual 5.

**Cairthenn** · 2012-12-28 00:06

A few things: HP of mobs (including NMs) is scaled based on the number of people.

Arrapago's NQ Khimaira trigger requires killing Armored Chariot within a certain amount of time (three minutes is definitely too long - it will NOT pop, two minutes is alright, but I'd try to stay under that time, 2:30 may be too high). I am 100% positive on this condition. Killing other NMs may be required, but this definitely is.

The other chariots are completely unrelated to popping it.

**Asymptotic** · 2012-12-28 00:09

(note that that's within first pulling it, not from porting to the floor)

**NynJa** · 2012-12-28 00:17

What about the people who said they've gotten Khim without killing anything?

but just to throw data at this idea:
Archaic Chariot1 --- 1 50.22
Archaic Chariot2 --- 1 43.97
Archaic Chariot3 --- 1 41.30
Archaic Rampart9 --- 1 50.08
Armored Chariot --- 1 2:28.74
Khimaira --- 1 16:15.86 (shit luck with fulmination: killed my mnk before the whm or mnk unstunned, so no counters, no cures)

**Cairthenn** · 2012-12-28 00:22

I haven't seen any reports of that, having thoroughly browsed the thread. I have seen not getting it whilst still killing Armored, but not getting it without.

Regardless, (assuming it is possible to spawn without fulfilling this condition) guaranteeing the pop requires killing it within a time limit.

Thread: Salvage II - Slavage Harder

Thread Tools

Similar Threads

JoL Pandemonium server part II

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads