Salvage II - Slavage Harder

[Obsidian]

I'm convinced the Archaic Gear has something to do with the 3F gears. The only times we don't get it are when we don't full clear that floor. Tonight after we clear 3F we'll wait until 65 minutes to warp up to see if time matters.

[Radec]

We've had no dvergr with over 30 rampart kills, haven't checked F4 time though.

[suji]

SSR:
Dvergr (NQ Rampart): Only running theories are that it's either related to the total number of rampart kills in the zone (15~16 or more?) or related to the time between porting to 4F and opening the door to the room where the rampart should be. I don't think either of these have been disproven.

yea, like Radec said, the requirement is definitely not defeating a certain minimum number of ramparts. As I said a few pages ago, my group killed 43 ramparts with no pop. My group tested the "open the door quickly" theory a couple nights ago and we got it to spawn. I have to run to another holiday party (ugh!! where's my gaming time?!) in a few mins but I'll try to fish out the port-up -> open-door time from my logs later.

[Cairthenn]

Didn't get the NM on Floor 2 of Zhayolm today, cleared the entire room.

Also no NMs on F4.

[NynJa]

Didn't get the NM on Floor 2 of Zhayolm today, cleared the entire room.

Did you clear the room before opening the door, or after?

[Slycer]

Yeah, the NM pops when you open the door. I'm guessing if you open the door before you kill stuff, the NM won't pop. Probably the same for the Dahak NM on Bhaflau 1F.

[SargentRemora]

Yeah, the NM pops when you open the door. I'm guessing if you open the door before you kill stuff, the NM won't pop. Probably the same for the Dahak NM on Bhaflau 1F.

This is certainly the case with the Troll NMs in Bhaflau F2.

[NynJa]

Yeah, the NM pops when you open the door. I'm guessing if you open the door before you kill stuff, the NM won't pop. Probably the same for the Dahak NM on Bhaflau 1F.

I've confirmed that in one of my first zhayolm posts, theres no second chance for that one.

[Slycer]

I've confirmed that in one of my first zhayolm posts, theres no second chance for that one.

So yeah, sounds like anything door-related, the conditions need to be fulfilled before you open the door. Do you know for sure whether it's just killing the mamools or whether it's clearing the whole room?

[Magitek]

So the remaining unsolved mysteries are-

Bhaflau:
Goblins: Usually pop, sometimes don't - ongoing theory is that it's related to kill speed of 2nd goblin? It's certainly related to killing the 2nd goblin in some regard.
Archaic Gear NM: Probably the most unreliable of all the NMs for which we don't have confirmed pop methods, ongoing theory is that it's time-related somehow, but nothing has been proposed yet that hasn't been disproven by at least one other person.
Cerberus (NQ Rampart): Seems to be related to kill-speed of the triple gears, but hasn't been confirmed yet.

Arrapago:
Khimaira (NQ Rampart): Seems to be related to kill speed on 6F, possibly just for Armored Chariot, but hasn't been confirmed yet

SSR:
Dvergr (NQ Rampart): Only running theories are that it's either related to the total number of rampart kills in the zone (15~16 or more?) or related to the time between porting to 4F and opening the door to the room where the rampart should be. I don't think either of these have been disproven.

I'm pretty sure we have 100% confirmation on pop methods for all other NMs.

I like how everyone ignored or missed Cairthenn's proposal that it had to do with killing triple gears when he mentioned it twice lol, I just went through the entire thread myself. I'm absolutely convinced at his proposal that you have to kill it within 2 minutes because I've gotten NQ/HQ Cerb every single run I've started killing the 3 triple gears with Hundred Fists. No one has disproven this yet, I think?

[NynJa]

So yeah, sounds like anything door-related, the conditions need to be fulfilled before you open the door. Do you know for sure whether it's just killing the mamools or whether it's clearing the whole room?

whole room
first time we cleared the mamools then opened it (thinking like arra, just lamia), but no NM popped. we cleared the rest of the room, and nothing spawned.

[18:44:20]Fireciont defeats the Poroggo Comtesse.
[18:46:28]Nynja defeats the Mamool Ja Mimicker.
[18:47:19]Nynja defeats the Mamool Ja Bounder.
*start running to door*
[18:47:32](Nynja) fuck
[18:47:36](Nynja) toad moved in worst spot
[18:47:38](Fireciont) ?
[18:47:42]Amorea starts casting Sneak on Nynja.
[18:47:48](Nynja) thx
[18:47:48]Nynja's Counterstance effect wears off.
[18:47:50]Target out of range.
[18:47:50]Amorea casts Sneak.
[18:47:50]Nynja gains the effect of Sneak.
[18:47:55](3*) Target out of range.
*open door*
[18:48:10](Nynja) wheres the gear NM?
[18:48:17](Fireciont) supposed to be here
[18:48:44](Fireciont) think it is clear room
*fight fight fight*
[18:52:52]Nynja defeats the Toad1. (last toad)
[18:53:10](Amorea) no pop
[18:53:32](Nynja) not in here either
[18:53:55](Fireciont) gonna port
[18:53:57](Nynja) ok
[18:54:01](Fireciont) must be clear before openning
[18:54:02](Nynja) did we do it wrong?
[18:54:05](Nynja) yeah was gonna say that

[Kincard]

I'm convinced the Archaic Gear has something to do with the 3F gears. The only times we don't get it are when we don't full clear that floor. Tonight after we clear 3F we'll wait until 65 minutes to warp up to see if time matters.

Time does not matter, at least not total time in zone. I've posted logs of me popping the Gear NM when I ported up later in the run than when I ported up earlier. I've also never had to full clear the floor, and it probably has nothing to do with which side you choose since I would see the NM 50% of the time if that was the case.

The Arrapago/Bhaflau NQ Ramparts are basically confirmed, when I mentioned a 2 minute time limit for the Bhaflau Rampart someone went and tested waiting after opening the door and couldn't get it. Arrapago I believe someone did do the same. It could still be some other factor, sure, but let's go with the far more likely answers for now.

[NynJa]

Theres this post about arra

Just did Arra and killed Armored Chariot in 97 seconds but didn't get NQ Khim to pop from Rampart. Actually quite baffled by it as we've had HQ Khim every single Arra run we've done prior to today. Today was the first time we went out of the way to kill Armored Chariot quickly and check killspeed too so yeah absolutely stumped. Full cleared everything else on the way up (except 5F Ramparts), didn't kill all the chariots before trying to pop Khim just the ones in the large room.

But this is the only post so far that says the 2m kill hasnt worked, so maybe something else went wrong there, or just glitched.

[Obsidian]

Time does not matter, at least not total time in zone. I've posted logs of me popping the Gear NM when I ported up later in the run than when I ported up earlier. I've also never had to full clear the floor, and it probably has nothing to do with which side you choose since I would see the NM 50% of the time if that was the case.

The Arrapago/Bhaflau NQ Ramparts are basically confirmed, when I mentioned a 2 minute time limit for the Bhaflau Rampart someone went and tested waiting after opening the door and couldn't get it. Arrapago I believe someone did do the same. It could still be some other factor, sure, but let's go with the far more likely answers for now.

Cleared 3F, waited to port until 65 minutes in, warped up to 4F, killed both gears, no NM. We had to sit on 3F for six or seven minutes while we were waiting to hit the 65 minute mark. We'll do what we normally do tomorrow and zone up right away and see if we get it to pop again. We definitely didn't take any longer than normal to kill the gear pair.

[Magitek]

I just did a BR2 run and got gear NM, but not gob.

Floor 1: First room fly, skipped second, always kill Pudding in I-8, then killed second gob, skipping first. Yesterday, I killed second fly instead, the only difference really. I went back to kill the first gob to see if the NM would pop, but no go..
Floor 2: Nothing different
Floor 3: Skipped almost every gear, but aggroed one in second to last room with the 3 single gears on east path, just ignored it and ported up.
Floor 4: I fled to the gear room and immediately aggroed both. Killed them in less than 3 minutes from port up, one at a time, both with melee strikes. Got gear NM.. no fkin clue here lol.

Gonna do the same thing tomorrow and see if it pops again D:. Anyone have any idea what I did wrong with the gob? I think I killed the second armsman around the 15~16 min mark.

[NynJa]

how are you taking so long on 1f? even with 1 DD with JA access completely naked (check random fail thread, love the pathos distribution) I still can get off the first floor in 16-18 min.

[Kidnoftle]

No pop of 4f east gear today and killed in under 2min from porting up and also killed them within a second of each other.

[macross]

Usualy takes me around 25 min to clear f1 bhaf. Depends on what cells you get unlocked. If you don't get hps on your DD it can be dangerous to fight the dahak and mightstrikes gobo, can't really go all out on them.

[Kidnoftle]

I've never had problems with either really, although I use a sch which some seem to think is strange. Phalanx + regen and you can afk while you're engaged. As for the dahaks, pretty simple stuff if you keep them silenced.

[NynJa]

pretty simple stuff if you keep them silenced.

I've been nullsonged with it silenced I dont run logger on my laptop so I cant really prove it, but I scrolled up and checked and I'm pretty sure silence had not worn off. I scrolled pretty quickly though, so I may have missed it.

got 4fE Gear again, was gonna dual WS kill, but a couple lucky strikes left my mnk with insufficient TP within a safe HP threshold to ensure a WS and not melee kill, so I melee killed them both down to 0:
[22:13:16]Kehhiko defeats the Archaic Gear1.
[22:13:25]Kehhiko defeats the Archaic Gear2.

Run data:
1 SJ, 1 JA, both to mnk.

[21:19:20]=== Area: Bhaflau Remnants ===
[21:23:28]Nynja defeats the Fly1.
[21:26:04]Kehhiko defeats the Black Pudding1. (formless + hundred fists)
1         Moblin Armsman2         True      Kehhiko                9:27 PM    9:28 PM       00:00:50     0       0
2         Throat Tearer Tregotroq True      Kehhiko                9:28 PM    9:30 PM       00:02:01     0       0
3         Dahak                   True      Nynja                  9:30 PM    9:33 PM       00:02:35     0       0
4         Smouldering Dahak       True      Kehhiko                9:33 PM    9:36 PM       00:03:09     0       0
5         Troll Smelter4          True      Kehhiko                9:39 PM    9:40 PM       00:01:28     0       0
6         Troll Gemologist3       True      Kehhiko                9:41 PM    9:42 PM       00:01:12     0       0
7         Troll Occultist1        True                             9:42 PM    9:44 PM       00:01:38     0       0
8         Troll Guardian4         True                             9:45 PM    9:47 PM       00:02:20     0       0
9         Archaic Gear43          True      Kehhiko                9:49 PM    9:50 PM       00:00:39     0       0
10        Archaic Gear42          True      Kehhiko                9:49 PM    9:50 PM       00:01:21     0       0
11        Archaic Gear44          True      Kehhiko                9:49 PM    9:50 PM       00:00:59     0       0
12        Archaic Rampart         True      Nynja                  9:51 PM    9:51 PM       00:00:48     0       0
13        Archaic Gears5          True      Kehhiko                9:52 PM    9:53 PM       00:01:04     0       0
14        Archaic Gears3          True      Kehhiko                9:52 PM    9:54 PM       00:02:02     0       0
15        Archaic Gears1          True      Kehhiko                9:52 PM    9:55 PM       00:03:32     0       0
16        Archaic Gears2          True      Kehhiko                9:52 PM    9:54 PM       00:02:23     0       0
17        Archaic Gears4          True      Nynja                  9:52 PM    9:53 PM       00:01:21     0       0
18        Archaic Gears7          True      Kehhiko                9:55 PM    9:56 PM       00:01:26     0       0
19        Archaic Gears8          True      Kehhiko                9:55 PM    9:56 PM       00:01:18     0       0
20        Archaic Gears6          True      Nynja                  9:55 PM    9:57 PM       00:01:26     0       0
21        Archaic Gear3           True      Kehhiko                9:57 PM    9:58 PM       00:00:42     0       0
22        Archaic Gear1           True      Nynja                  9:57 PM    9:59 PM       00:01:18     0       0
23        Archaic Gear2           True      Kehhiko                9:57 PM    9:58 PM       00:00:48     0       0
24        Archaic Rampart         True      Kehhiko                9:59 PM   10:00 PM       00:00:48     0       0
25        Archaic Gears4          True      Kehhiko               10:00 PM   10:01 PM       00:00:58     0       0
26        Archaic Gears1          True      Kehhiko               10:00 PM   10:03 PM       00:02:31     0       0
27        Archaic Gears6          True      Kehhiko               10:00 PM   10:01 PM       00:01:05     0       0
28        Archaic Gears5          True      Nynja                 10:00 PM   10:02 PM       00:01:20     0       0
29        Archaic Gears8          True      Nynja                 10:02 PM   10:04 PM       00:01:35     0       0
30        Archaic Gears7          True      Nynja                 10:02 PM   10:06 PM       00:03:46     0       0
31        Archaic Gears3          True      Nynja                 10:02 PM   10:05 PM       00:02:21     0       0
32        Archaic Gears2          True      Nynja                 10:02 PM   10:05 PM       00:03:04     0       0
33        Archaic Gear1           True      Kehhiko               10:12 PM   10:13 PM       00:01:16     0       0
34        Archaic Gear2           True      Kehhiko               10:12 PM   10:13 PM       00:01:01     0       0
35        Archaic Gear3           True      Nynja                 10:13 PM   10:15 PM       00:01:32     0       0
36        Long-Bowed Chariot      True      Nynja                 10:15 PM   10:17 PM       00:01:32     0       0
37        Acrolith1               True      Kehhiko               10:17 PM   10:19 PM       00:01:12     0       0
38        Acrolith2               True      Kehhiko               10:19 PM   10:20 PM       00:00:53     0       0
39        Acrolith3               True      Nynja                 10:20 PM   10:22 PM       00:02:16     0       0
40        Archaic Gears2          True      Kehhiko               10:23 PM   10:24 PM       00:01:12     0       0
41        Archaic Gears3          True      Nynja                 10:23 PM   10:24 PM       00:01:11     0       0
42        Archaic Gears1          True      Nynja                 10:23 PM   10:24 PM       00:00:28     0       0
43        Archaic Rampart         True      Kehhiko               10:24 PM   10:25 PM       00:00:46     0       0
44        Cerberus                True      Kehhiko               10:25 PM   10:30 PM       00:04:59     0       0
45        Cerberus Seether        True      Kehhiko               10:32 PM   10:41 PM       00:08:19     0       0