Salvage II - Slavage Harder

[Helel]

I use BLU THF SCH for all the zones minus BR2 (haven't had a reason to go there yet). For SCH, there's really no reason why you can't just give them the abilities and SJ from the lamp. SJ is relatively unimportant for DD, and losing abilities for a couple minutes isn't a big issue. It's very easy to farm abilities in ZR and AR from the mamool/lamia respectively.

Here's how we do both AR and ZR. Unlock SCH JA and Magic from lamp; cast aoe phalanx + protect v on BLU; BLU aggroes/links every mob in one of the wings, including the lamia/mamool; once everything is linked, the SCH uses embrava; mow everything down asap, killing lamia/mamool first. This saves a bunch of time for us, even if we get no abilities whatsoever. If this happens, you simply unlock abilities on the second floor from the lamp.

Embrava is up by the time we reach HQ boss. Recast for him and kill. I really don't see the point in bringing a WHM. Regen V + Cure IV is just as good, if not better, than what a WHM can do in terms of healing. I don't even have to heal at all for like the first four floors.

Edit: obviously, if the lamp gives us 2 magics or 2 JAs, the first floor is cleared even faster.

[Vyvian]

well /war is closer to 20% boost if you dont bring bard (minuets). If I bring 3 people the third is a brd not a thf. Th3 is enough. if you go with MNK THF WHM, /war on the MNK is only goign to boost your overall dmg by ~10% too. Not saying people should go /NIN, those bosses seem to be joke tier, granted I only did arrapago and silversea.

I did Bhaf as /nin, and still cleared with 20+ minutes to spare, so I'm not really concerned about slowing down. It's rare but I have gotten killed by a melee critical and a 1800+ sulfurous breath basically going off at exactly the same time, yay counterstance fail, so using a few shadows when there's 0 risk of timing out seems like the better choice to me. Tried switching so I was healer and used a drk but that was even slower (we did time out trying that).

[NynJa]

Jan 5

Sulfurous Breath
+ 379: 1
+ 634: 1
+^ 716: 1
+ 833: 1
+ 1167: 1

Jan 3
Sulfurous Breath
+ 474: 1
+ 495: 1
+ 709: 1
+^ 713: 1
+ 1054: 1
+ 1125: 1

Jan 1
Sulfurous Breath
+ 468: 1
+ 522: 1
+ 580: 1
+ 712: 1
+^ 737: 1
+ 804: 1
+ 822: 1
+ 1054: 1

Those are the ones I had saved, where are these 1800 Sulfurous Breaths (or any with ridiculous damage) you guys keep talking about ? lol I dont think its physical, because I always keep barfira and shellraV up, and thats with counterstance always.

[Protey]

With a good set/aurorastorm, cure IV is like 950+ cured. You'd also gain 40-45 damage phalanx with sch/rdm.

even with 500 enhancing you're only getting 35 damage reduced from phalanx.

[Lyltia]

Correct, you do not need to kill the 1st moblin on either path to pop the NM, but the NM is not 100% upon killing the 2nd moblin; the only time i saw it not pop is when our WHM pulled it back to the first moblin as we were taking that one out for unlocks, so chances are very good it's another "kill in x seconds from claim to pop NM." Never had it not pop when I didn't fuck around, and I go DRK WHM, so whatever the limit is, it's not hardcore.

[Obsidian]

I've taken a 1200 from the Seether before, but never anything more than that. But if /NIN floats your boat, go for it.

[suji]

nd on later floors, since I'm usually countertanking 5-6 mobs at a time (or 8 in arra...), I dont think regen5 and Cure4 will cut it.

SCH works fine for those arra gears, btw. Usually the pack is about 70~80% HP by the time I kill the first one. I just have to PDT while lining them up.

Trying to summarize the suggested hydra party setups, am I getting that the consensus is that DRK BRD WHM(or SCH) is optimal?

And macrossss, don't forget to factor in Hydra's crazy regen into your HP estimate. By the time it dies I wouldn't be surprised if it regenerates ~15% of its total HP.

[Obsidian]

Both Hydras took about 20k more damage than the other bosses when I parsed them. The other bosses have ~40k for NQ and ~60k for HQ, so the NQ regened 50% of its HP over the duration of the fight (60k total damage dealt), and the HQ regened 30% of its HP over the course of the fight (80k total damage dealt).

I had no issues MNK WHM THF (THF wasn't on it though) on the Hydras, but I didn't get hosed with Pyric bulwarks either.

[NynJa]

Trying to summarize the suggested hydra party setups, am I getting that the consensus is that DRK BRD WHM(or SCH) is optimal?

That seems to be the most reliant setup, bear in mind though on the way up, brd wont get ranged till 5f, or even 6f if you skip the mamool NM there.

Either way, I dont think you have to do the area, dont. It offers less plans than arrapago, it offers less alexandrite than arra/bhaf, and the boss is significantly more...not difficult, cumbersome.

[Jem]

Just did Zhayolm and didn't have any issues with Hydra. The HQ does admittedly hit a hell of a lot harder than other zone bosses though and requires PDT gear like people have said. It did Trembling for 1594 to me in normal TP gear which prompted me to switch to Hybrid gear. NQ didn't seem to hit all that hard though.

Agree with Nynja's sentiment on Zhayolm though. It isn't just that the bosses are a bigger pain, the zone in general just sucks. Not getting the bulk of your gear until 5F just makes the whole zone seem horrible to me. It has the potential for more plans than Arra but we didn't see it today and we take a THF (5 Blood, 2 Umbrage). Think we'll stick to Arra unless people want Hydra drops which doesn't seem to be the case in my group.

On the topic of Zhayolm. The 3F Ramparts. Once you have popped the Gears NM from 1 Rampart, I assume it becomes unpoppable at the other Rampart which you can still access? Briefly tried to pop at the East Rampart today after popping at the West Rampart but gave up after 4 Diremite pops.

[Obsidian]

The second frog is an asshole.

[macross]

Never tried popping both, just assumed they wont pop.

Zhay is horrible but it has the highest potential for blood drops, up to 6-7 vs the up to 3-4 you can get in Arra.
Besides I still need to get the ate hands/mask and they are listed to drop in zhay.

It's pretty horrible for alex, the gearing is horrible, the bosses are horrible, but I can manage after doing it so much.

I know the hydra regens, faster you kill it the better. 60k hps for a 3 min fight is alot of regen. Not all hydras are silky smooth easy peasy though. There are times where it just spams the shield and kill times are longer and triple attacks like a mofo even dbl slowed. Still only way to die is nerve gas followed by a super combo.

[Helel]

On the third floor of ZR, if you go north you have a better chance at getting umbrage, because the mamool almost always drops 2 with a THF. The lowest umbrage possible is 2, assuming you kill all possible NMs. The highest is 6 I believe, but you'd have to be incredibly lucky. The 3rd floor frog and gear very rarely drop umbrage. The chariot rarely drops umbrage as well. If you go south on the third floor, you'll end up with a max of only 4 umbrage, but more blood.

Basically, you wouldn't want to spam AR over ZR if you're going for ares stuff, and vice versa for skadi.

[NynJa]

Have you tried going the other way, and seeing if bloodshed counts are similar?

[Nekradarken]

please show me how you get 52.

From you data, I used the recast time (instead of time being shaved off by haste). I used the formula floor[(1-haste)*recast]. The data is shown below (i have removed the floor function but you get the idea).

Edit: It is 52-56 /1024 that fits the recast cooldown from your data. Not 52-57 as I previously stated.

Usukane bonus = 51
Actual	Calculated
52	52.32
49	49.98
49	49.39
48	48.75
46	46.41
46	47.05

Usukane bonus = 52
Actual	Calculated
52	52.27
49	49.92
49	49.34
48	48.69
46	46.35
46	46.99

Usukane bonus = 56
Actual	Calculated
52	52.03
49	49.69
49	49.10
48	48.46
46	46.11
46	46.76

Usukane bonus = 57
Actual	Calculated
52	51.97
49	49.63
49	49.04
48	48.40
46	46.05
46	46.70

[Protey]

i think you meant to put your formula as floor[(1-(equipment +projected set bonus haste)*60]. when you put recast, i thought you meant what the result was, but it should be the base recast of 60 sec. strange though that it'd be between 52 and 56, because that is more than 5%, but less than 6%

[Arthars]

bloodshed drop 4-8 in zhalyom (3 NM dropping 1-2), usually 6-7 cos of 1 NM that only drop bloodshed at 15%ish basis

and only 3-7 in arra (only 1 NM drop 1-2), usually 4 cos of 3 NM that only drop bloodshed at 15%ish basis

[Protey]

went and got an Arbuda grip and hasty pinion for more 3/5 usu+1 testing. with 3/5, the grip, and the pinion i get a recast of 51 seconds. For usu haste set values I get the following:

50 - 51.21
51 - 51.15
52 - 51.09
53 - 51.04
54 - 50.98

and from Nekradarken's earlier post, we know it has to be between 52 and 56, this further testing shows it can't be above 53. So that means it is either 52 or 53 / 1024. Strange value for the set.

[Byrthnoth]

52/1024 is a pretty close approximation of 5%

[Protey]

actually i was using 10 /1024 for both the grip and ammo. but if it's the same as blitz ring with 11/1024, i get the following values:

50 - 51.09
51 - 51.04
52 - 50.98

which means it has to be 51 or less. but that doesn't match up with the other testing data that says it has to be between 52 and 56. so i am thinking that the grip and pinion are 10 /1024.