Salvage II - Slavage Harder

**Yeager** · 2013-01-29 14:26

We have been doing Salvage II pretty much once a day now for the past 2 weeks with ZERO lag issues.....until yesterday. Before, my R would hover around the 1200-1500 range, which is fine as that doesn't give me too much of a problem. But the first run we do post-update and our R increases up to 2500-3200. Coincidence?

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-01-29 14:29

Originally Posted by Darkmagi

So I'm over 0/25 on Genta Hara-ate from BR, not sure on the exact number, but likely much higher. Am I just getting screwed by RNG, or is there something I'm missing?

Screwed by RNG. I've seen three body drops in all the Salvage v2 runs I've done and they were within 4 consecutive runs. Idi's Jerkin -> Genta Hara-ate -> (nothing) -> Neit's Coat. Random is random, etc.

**suji** · 2013-01-29 14:43

Originally Posted by Obsidian

My evasion was <10% will Boxer's/Somen+1/Torero/Novia/Ethereal/Usu. Gote/Athos boots, and enhanced Dodge (on both Hydras, and every other boss except Khim). I've had far more success using Counterstance than I have letting my face get beat in. If you aren't going to use Counterstance, you're better off sitting in PDT gear fulltime.

Edit: My R is over 1400 pretty much perpetually in any Salvage zone. It can be obnoxious sometimes.

Just to add to this, I evaded 48% as THF on the HQ last night with a hybrid evasion setup. I went /NIN so this evasion rate was actually pretty manageable.

Spoiler: show

**suji** · 2013-01-29 14:51

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Screwed by RNG. I've seen three body drops in all the Salvage v2 runs I've done and they were within 4 consecutive runs. Idi's Jerkin -> Genta Hara-ate -> (nothing) -> Neit's Coat. Random is random, etc.

Which path did you take on those? A friend of mine has been wondering if the path you choose affects the loot probability distribution for that run.

From going west:

Spoiler: show

Going east:

Spoiler: show

Could be bs but I figured I'd toss it out and see how it matches with everyone else's data.
(Edit: we went west at first before we realized e/nw/e was so much better for ritualistic.)

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-01-29 15:01

I went West/South-east/East out of old-SSR habit for a while (no body drops) and then went East/South-East/East and got 2 body drops. I do the same path every time in Arrapago and have farmed over a hundred Plans there, but got my first body drop off the Khims only two nights ago.

**Taint** · 2013-01-29 15:23

Originally Posted by Darkmagi

So I'm over 0/25 on Genta Hara-ate from BR, not sure on the exact number, but likely much higher. Am I just getting screwed by RNG, or is there something I'm missing?

Getting screwed, it drops all the time for us.

**suji** · 2013-01-29 17:35

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

I went West/South-east/East out of old-SSR habit for a while (no body drops) and then went East/South-East/East and got 2 body drops. I do the same path every time in Arrapago and have farmed over a hundred Plans there, but got my first body drop off the Khims only two nights ago.

well, I don't mean to press a whack-job theory but "body drop" doesn't actually respond to what I was saying if path choice is associated with a particular gear set's probabilities. So the question would be which bodies dropped, not whether or not bodies dropped.

Are you going E/NW/E, Taint? If so, that stomps this out.

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-01-29 17:37

I got both bodies to drop with the same path on consecutive runs on the same day with approximately the same moonphase (runs were 2 hours apart), but I was facing opposite directions because one was off NQ Cerberus and one was off Cerberus Seether.

It's a whack-job theory and I feel comfortable denying it purely on the principle of parsimony.

**suji** · 2013-01-29 17:40

No need to get like that, salvage has all kinds of weird conditions. Thanks for the info.

**Loire** · 2013-01-29 19:50

Originally Posted by Obsidian

My evasion was <10% will Boxer's/Somen+1/Torero/Novia/Ethereal/Usu. Gote/Athos boots, and enhanced Dodge (on both Hydras, and every other boss except Khim). I've had far more success using Counterstance than I have letting my face get beat in. If you aren't going to use Counterstance, you're better off sitting in PDT gear fulltime.

Edit: My R is over 1400 pretty much perpetually in any Salvage zone. It can be obnoxious sometimes.

I honestly have more experience with the bard soulvoicing dragonfoe and using my typical TP set minus rancor item while counterstanced and the typical mnk buffs. I was going to figure out what the effect of a SV'd mambo in comparison to the evasion set you had listed and see the difference but... there isn't any testing on actual evasion gain listed with mambo on bgwiki or otherwiki or much of anywhere. Sadly I have no parsed logs to affiliate my claim just eyeballing from logs, unless there is a way to kparser from loggered logs. That said, eyeballing, significant change in evaded hits and average trembling dmg (believing that trembling is a 3 hit AOE, since the thf is sub nin and that had been max shadows stripped)

**Obsidian** · 2013-01-29 21:33

Originally Posted by Loire

I honestly have more experience with the bard soulvoicing dragonfoe and using my typical TP set minus rancor item while counterstanced and the typical mnk buffs. I was going to figure out what the effect of a SV'd mambo in comparison to the evasion set you had listed and see the difference but... there isn't any testing on actual evasion gain listed with mambo on bgwiki or otherwiki or much of anywhere. Sadly I have no parsed logs to affiliate my claim just eyeballing from logs, unless there is a way to kparser from loggered logs. That said, eyeballing, significant change in evaded hits and average trembling dmg (believing that trembling is a 3 hit AOE, since the thf is sub nin and that had been max shadows stripped)

Just parsed my Bhaf2 run, did Cerberus in evasion gear, Seether in DD gear. I was going to avoid using Counterstance on Cerb to also compare damage per hit, but by 30% my WHM was out of MP and I kept losing hate so I had to put it up to stop having my skull caved in.

Long and the short of it is that I took 3k more damage in my evasion gear than I did in my normal TP gear, Cerb took almost two minutes longer than Seether, and my evasion was 15% on Cerb, 7% on Seether. I also never have issues with hate on MP when using Counterstance, and twice now I've tried without it and it made my life significantly more difficult.

Here's the parse data if you want to look at anything.

My evasion set was Somen+1/Torero/Novia/Ethereal/Usu. Haramaki/Usu. Gote/Boxer's/Athos boots.

**cdgreg** · 2013-01-29 22:42

I recently saw in the RQT that mnk + whm can duo most NMs in Neo Salvage. What is the benefit to using WHM over RDM or SCH as the healer? I have not done any Salvage 2 but did quite a bit of V1 in terms of experience.

**Motenten** · 2013-01-29 23:00

Originally Posted by cdgreg

I recently saw in the RQT that mnk + whm can duo most NMs in Neo Salvage. What is the benefit to using WHM over RDM or SCH as the healer? I have not done any Salvage 2 but did quite a bit of V1 in terms of experience.

Over sch: That you don't need to give them JA cells to have them be fully effective (of course JA for whm's Solace is still nice, and for sj abilities, but not critical). This is very significant in Bhaflau, less so in other areas.
Over rdm: Curagas and, in certain edge cases, Cure V for low enmity cures (Cure III/IV is otherwise fine). If you're duoing, though, curagas won't matter.
Over both: barspells, MP efficiency from AF3 legs (but loses out to the MP recovery rates of the other two jobs)

If you can work around that, though, sch gives more damage potential from enspells, and rdm has better debuffs (Dia III, at the very least), so it's a bit of a trade-off.

**Obsidian** · 2013-01-29 23:14

What's the advantage of taking SCH or RDM is what I'd ask. SCH requires half your starting chest to be effective, RDM is almost as bad (Sub for /SCH, JAs for Light Arts/Addendum: White). WHM is most capable to deal with spike damage (Cure V/VI), has better barspells and buffs (barring Enspells), constant cureskin. RDM will have stronger enfeebles, SCH can Embrava you.

All zones are totally doable with any healer. My friend just prefers WHM.

**Obsidian** · 2013-01-29 23:14

Edit: Sweet double.

**Arthars** · 2013-01-30 00:19

whm is foolproof

rdm and sch benefits you if you wanna one-up your foolproof plan

and also yea, wtf is wrong with forum, everything i post becomes double too

**cdgreg** · 2013-01-30 00:49

Thanks for the feedback guys, looking forward to trying this out!

**Scrooge** · 2013-01-30 00:54

In Bhauflau and Arrapago, where you get extremely early reliable Ranged, a BRD is more than enough to solo heal a MNK through the entire zone. Songs will make the run go far faster than the other mage options if you're looking for speed.

**Obsidian** · 2013-01-30 01:10

Originally Posted by Scrooge

In Bhauflau and Arrapago, where you get extremely early reliable Ranged, a BRD is more than enough to solo heal a MNK through the entire zone. Songs will make the run go far faster than the other mage options if you're looking for speed.

I'd honestly like to see a bard keep alive any DD tanking Cerberus or Khimaira.

**Yugl** · 2013-01-30 01:11

Originally Posted by Obsidian

What's the advantage of taking SCH or RDM is what I'd ask. SCH requires half your starting chest to be effective, RDM is almost as bad (Sub for /SCH, JAs for Light Arts/Addendum: White). WHM is most capable to deal with spike damage (Cure V/VI), has better barspells and buffs (barring Enspells), constant cureskin. RDM will have stronger enfeebles, SCH can Embrava you.

All zones are totally doable with any healer. My friend just prefers WHM.

Phalanx II and Enfeebles. You don't need much with Phalanx during the early floors unless you have trash tanks. WHM just gives more leeway during the mega-NM.

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