So how about that Connecticut Elementary School Shooting; Troll at Your Own Risk

[BaneTheBrawler]

Nothing is stopping people from hiring bodyguards. Also, this argument is stupid as hell.

[Esby]

Because he's the most powerful person in the planet?

Lol.
Good one.
The U.S. president stopped being the most powerful (or relevant, for that matter) person on the planet 11 years ago.
Go ask anyone if they value his life more than the lives of their family members. Guess what is everyone going to answer?
He's replaceable, no matter who he is.

[Xantavia]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...96812557_n.jpg

I guess I saw nothing in this picture except more fear mongering against the president. Whoever made this should have replaced the top and bottom images.

[hey]

So you would trade Obama being alive instead of four or five 6 y/olds, also known as a family.

Yes.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, that's pretty much a no-brainer. Of course I would. The president getting assassinated would politically destabilize the globe, let alone the USA. Many more than 1 family would die from the resulting conflict, potentially including your own. It makes complete sense to protect him with everything we have both because the threats to him are greater and the consequences of him dying are worse.

[Qalbert]

anyone see that pic of "18.2 people killed in mass shootings stopped by police" "2.4 people killed in mass shootings stopped by civilians" picture? think i need to weed out my facebook friends

[archibaldcrane]

Claiming that assault rifles are the best weapon for home defense is so lulzy that the conversation doesn't need to continue beyond that point.

[Ragnus]

Nothing says protecting your family like bullets that can penetrate the walls and kill them by accident.

Rock salt shotgun shells or gtfo.

[Lurking Badger]

Rock salt won't help protect your family and your constitutional rights from werewolves. You need silver bullets for that.

[Boyiee]

Nothing says protecting your family like bullets that can penetrate the walls and kill them by accident.

Rock salt shotgun shells or gtfo.

Shoot to kill here. If the person lives they can claim you used unnecessary force and your life wasn't in danger. Its a tough lawsuit to beat, hesaid-shesaid.

[Lucavi]

Shoot to kill and possibly shoot your family through a wall.

Lovely. An acceptable potential sacrifice, I suppose, because at least the perp is dead (possibly).

[archibaldcrane]

He's right, if you have a home invader you will want real bullets, not rubber or rock salt.


Problem is most of the time guns in the home are shot at people they are killing non-invaders or suiciding.

tl;dr not having real bullets would make gun ownership safer even though it would be worse for actual home invasion protection. Ahh the general hypocrisy of self-defense arguments.


Actually that would be a fantastic statistic if someone could draw it up - of the number of shots fired at people by civilians in the United States, what percentage of those shots are fired at someone who is perpetrating a crime?

[Pikarya]

Shoot to kill and possibly shoot your family through a wall.

Lovely. An acceptable potential sacrifice, I suppose, because at least the perp is dead (possibly).

Think of it as getting a financial discount on your family bill.

[Aurara]

FAIRFIELD, CA - A Fairfield 18 year old is in custody for allegedly posting online threats similar to Friday's Connecticut school shooting, said police.

Det. Sgt. Kevin Carella said the police department was made aware of the comments Monday morning. Carella said a friend of a friend saw Facebook posts allegedly made by suspect Sergio Cabada and informed police.

The Facebook posts indicated Cabada supported the alleged actions of the school shooter and was thinking about carrying out a similar shooting rampage, according to Carella.

Detectives obtained a warrant to search Cabada's home and found he had access to firearms, Carella said.

Cabada was arrested Monday afternoon and booked on suspicion of making criminal threats, which are felonies.

Goddammit, Fairfield.
http://www.news10.net/news/article/2...ooting-threats

I went to HS with this kid and he was friends with a lot of my friends. He posted some stupid shit about the shooting on FB and then I find out he got arrested, lol.

[Seraph]

Shoot to kill and possibly shoot your family through a wall.

Lovely. An acceptable potential sacrifice, I suppose, because at least the perp is dead (possibly).

Telling someone who desires deadly force as a home defense that it could result in the possibility of accidental deadly force seems unnecessary and distracting.

Hundreds of people die from electrical shock every year, and even more die from house fires caused by electrical faults. Perhaps we should remove electricity from homes as well? Every time you allow power through the circuit breaker box your loved ones could very well die, so is the risk worth it? An acceptable potential sacrifice, I suppose...

My counter argument seems stupid right? Sure it does. However, it's the exact same line of reasoning for a very similar very real danger that people must endure everyday in their homes. Electricity, while also potentially fatal if used incorrectly, doesn't have the same shock value (sorry, I couldn't resist (bah, I did it again)) and stigma that guns have.

[Eurell]

Do people not get why that is such a horrible argument?

Electricity, Cars, knives, rope, and w/e else people want to use as examples, can all kill people. This is true. But Guns were made with the purpose to kill (whether in self defense or w/e). That is what they do. All those other things have a purpose in society. A guns only purpose is to cause harm to something or someone.

[Ksandra]

Hundreds of people die from electrical shock every year, and even more die from house fires caused by electrical faults. Perhaps we should remove electricity from homes as well? Every time you allow power through the circuit breaker box your loved ones could very well die, so is the risk worth it? An acceptable potential sacrifice, I suppose...

You do need a better example than that because families with kids are expected to have these:

http://www.makethelist.net/wp-conten...let-covers.jpg

So yes, people already take precautions against accidental deadly electricity.

Do people not get why that is such a horrible argument?

Electricity, Cars, knives, rope, and w/e else people want to use as examples, can all kill people. This is true. But Guns were made with the purpose to kill (whether in self defense or w/e). That is what they do. All those other things have a purpose in society. A guns only purpose is to cause harm to something or someone.

Also this ^ x1000000000

[Lucavi]

Think of it as getting a financial discount on your family bill.

Goddammit, lol.

Edit: And I know it'll never happen because money and media and money and money, but we need to seriously copy Russia and start suppressing this shit. Copycats are gonna come out of the woodwork from every corner of the country.

[notorious bum]

New Town to Newtown: How '96 Massacre Spurred Gun Laws in Australia -- and No Mass Shootings Since

In the wake of the Newtown killings that left 27 people dead on Friday, we go to another New Town — in Australia — the home of a mass shooting that killed 35 people in 1996. Just 12 days after what became known as the Port Arthur massacre, Australia’s government responded by announcing a bipartisan deal to enact gun control measures. There have been no mass killings since. We’re joined by Rebecca Peters, an international arms control advocate who led the campaign to reform Australia’s gun laws after the Port Arthur Massacre. She also produced the landmark report, “Gun Control in the United States: A Comparative Survey of State Firearm Laws,” with the Open Society Institute in New York.

It's pretty interesting what you can accomplish when your govt. actually has independent thought and isn't controlled, lock-stock-and-barrel, by lobbyists. Australia had so many gun nuts and hunters, yet they forced those assholes to give em up.

[Seraph]

Also this ^ x1000000000

It's a simple risk versus reward situation. I'm just pointing out that people make these tradeoffs everyday without even thinking about it, without panicking, without getting emotional, in situations that literally involve their own children and loved ones. You talk about the special outlet covers as a reasonable precaution to keep kids from sticking forks into the socket, I'll talk about gun lock boxes as a reasonable precaution for a common failure mode of the tool. So again, what is the difference here? I often think people are upset at the intended use of the tool, instead of the inherent risk of the tool itself.

"But it could be used for this!" or "But it could do this!" are just really terrible arguments to make by themselves.


...and just as an aside thought, the power outlet isn't the only dangerous part.