So how about that Connecticut Elementary School Shooting; Troll at Your Own Risk

[archibaldcrane]

However, it's unclear whether the rifle in question would've been banned under an assault weapons ban, as it's unknown whether it had "two features" (like flash supressor, pistol grip, bayonet mount, grenade launcher) that would've made it classified as such. Likely it did not, as they reconfigured tons of weapons during the ban so they could be sold anyway and continue to manufacture such "less than 2-feature" M-16 knockoffs.

[Eurell]

The seeming contradiction over how Adam Lanza could have used a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle in the shootings when that same weapon was supposedly found locked in the trunk of his car afterwards was cleared up a few days later. The weapon found in the trunk of Lanza's car was a shotgun, not an AR-15:
Adam Lanza brought three weapons inside Sandy Hook Elementary school on December 14 and left a fourth in his car, police said. Those weapons were a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle and two handguns — a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm. In the car he left a shotgun ...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp#actors

[archibaldcrane]

Yep.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

It's one of those "loopholes" that people are bringing up in the gun legislation talks. For instance: you can legally purchase a firearm from another person in the state of Virginia without having a permit and you don't have to have the firearm registered when it transfers (either party). So purchasing outside the state, say you bought one that ships the weapon from a state with stricter laws (i.e. Connecticut), it's the buyers jurisdictional laws and firearms laws that comes in to play when the sale is made, not the seller.

It's not like this in every case and I'm sure there's some places where it doesn't work that way due to specific laws made by the state. An example again would be the District of Columbia, which specifically has it written in it's laws that you cannot purchase a gun outside of the city and bring it in to the city without registering the firearm or the transfer of sale through a licensed dealer (there's only one in D.C.). Conversely, if you tried to purchase a weapon from that same shop from outside of the District of Columbia, you have to go through D.C.'s purchase provisions and background checks before you can own that weapon. Which is why every gun that's ever recovered in a crime of violence in the District is almost (80-85% of the time) always traced to Virginia where it originated from.

That's a hellva loophole via state law. For online sales though every reputable gun seller complies with state and federal law or else the BATF shows up pretty quickly. Was wondering if there was some internet gun sales underbelly that happens (deepnet aside).

[Nephlite]

I can't speak on experience because I buy all my guns from LE-Friendly shops. Guy I work with (Army vet, couple tours under his belt, pro-gun nut) who all of us thought would be the first to jump on the "Don't take mah gunz!" bandwagon was the first of us to offer some interesting insight to gun control issues and brought this particular loophole up (internet purchases) as well as gun show buys and whatnot. I know, friend of a friend stuff but the stuff they were talking about in the news in regards to the loophole of gun show buyings in Virginia showed that half of the firearms were purchased without background checks. It's encouraged, just not a requirement so the internet sales thing isn't too far fetched.

[FNH]

Genuinely curious of where you can purchase a gun online without having showing proof of an FFL on the receiving end. Only way around that is a C&R license and I don't hear of mass shootings with muskets and guns from the 1940's.

Shipping to a different state is supposed to ship to an FFL for the transfer, within your own state it varies. I can put a firearm up on armslist/facebooks/etc and sell it privately avoiding background checks, pending valid drivers license and I usually do a bill of sale.

[Deadgye]

wiki:

There we go, thanks for that. It's so hard to sort through news articles on high profile events like these.

[Acevalefor]

To further the internet sales thing; Have you ever heard of message boards? Many people host their own boards and many others buy/sell/trade guns, ammo and gun accessories on those boards by sharing info on the boards then completing the transaction over the phone or in person. I can buy a gun just as easily as I can buy a used skateboard or a FFXI account.

That said, it is far more common for black market sales to happen at gun shows and swap meets. Person A has wood gun stocks for sale. Person B wants one but doesn't have the money. They talk about it and agree to meet outside at person B's vehicle where the gun is traded for the stock. I have personally witnessed countless transactions like this.

[FNH]

That said, it is far more common for black market sales to happen at gun shows and swap meets. Person A has wood gun stocks for sale. Person B wants one but doesn't have the money. They talk about it and agree to meet outside at person B's vehicle where the gun is traded for the stock. I have personally witnessed countless transactions like this.

How does that fall into the category of "black market"?

[Suvhater]

its not an exambple of black market, its and example of goods being transferred in the grey market

[Nephlite]

Well the sales aren't illegal so they wouldn't be a black market sale. Bad labeling but the instance he quoted happens all the time.

[FNH]

Well the sales aren't illegal so they wouldn't be a black market sale. Bad labeling but the instance he quoted happens all the time.

Trading and bartering have been around for ages, I often do it if the price of the object they want to trade is greater than the dollar amount I wanted.

[Nephlite]

Yeah that would be a more appropriate label to what's going on. What Ace is saying is there's no restrictions or guidelines for a person-to-person sale of guns in certain states. I bought my Mossberg 500 and MP443 from a friend of mine and he made a bill of sale for me (not required). No registration, no background, nada. If he didn't know me very well, he could have easily just sold two guns to a frickin nut-job and would have never known.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Don't worry, you're already viewed as a gun nut for owning multiple firearms (duty carry aside).

[Acevalefor]

Yeah that would be a more appropriate label to what's going on. What Ace is saying is there's no restrictions or guidelines for a person-to-person sale of guns in certain states. I bought my Mossberg 500 and MP443 from a friend of mine and he made a bill of sale for me (not required). No registration, no background, nada. If he didn't know me very well, he could have easily just sold two guns to a frickin nut-job and would have never known.

So my post was a little fuzzy. The black market I was talking about was in the sale of firearms illegally in the parking lot of a gun show or swap meet. I think grey market is a much more appropriate term for that. However, many stolen firearms are bought and sold in this manner. This is the blacker part of the grey area. I grew up around gun shows. I went to at least 6 shows per year. I can remember many back room deals involving stolen goods being bought and sold/traded at these gun shows.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Selling your gun in the parking lot is totally kosher in Oregon. Morally objectionable however since either the seller or buyer isn't being legit most of the time.

[Acevalefor]

Selling your gun in the parking lot is totally kosher in Oregon. Morally objectionable however since either the seller or buyer isn't being legit most of the time.

The illegal part comes in when the gun is stolen or the buyer/seller isn't allowed to have guns. It's not just Oregon that has gun shows and swap meets either. I traveled around Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah for 12 years selling stuff at shows. The same stuff happened at every single show I was at. People asked us all the time to come take a look at something in their vehicle that they wanted to trade for our product. 90% of the time it was a gun that was illegal for one reason or another, which is why they didn't just bring it in the building and trade it outright. It is incredibly easy to obtain a gun with 0 background checking or regulation of the sale. Also, people don't like sales tax.

The entire point I am making is that this legislation talking about banning bullets, limiting magazine sizes, banning "assault rifles" (remember that my bolt action .22 would be an assault weapon because of the scope and 12 round magazine) is all bullshit reactive response. I have never bought a gun from a licensed dealer as it is 10x easier to buy private-party. As long as there is an easy way to transfer firearms from person to person, there will be problems. And unless the government decides to start a war on guns, policing the transfer of firearms will be all but impossible.

[archibaldcrane]

banning "assault rifles" (remember that my bolt action .22 would be an assault weapon because of the scope and 12 round magazine) is all bullshit reactive response.

lol

your saying that your bolt-action .22 would be considered an "assault weapon" is a bullshit reactive response. No classification of assault weapons has included weapons that are not semi-automatic.

[kuronosan]

Stopped reading at bolt-action.

Bolt-action is not semi-automatic.

[Acevalefor]

lol

your saying that your bolt-action .22 would be considered an "assault weapon" is a bullshit reactive response. No classification of assault weapons has included weapons that are not semi-automatic.

That was a reference to the "two features" proposal that was talked about in December. Tongue-in-cheek. Stay with me archi. By the way, couldn't you just move the interior wall at the back of your garage to accommodate your Tesla? New header and a double wide overhead door & moving the wall would work well.