Friend in trouble - advice appreciated

**Churchill** · 2012-12-30 18:42

I have asked myself that question and the answer is fairly simple. I have a certain personality and I don't care to be in a relationship with someone who is pretending or thinks she should have the same personality as me. I don't experience this often, but I've been a younger and more foolish man and thus I have experienced it. My personality is one that men naturally gravitate towards and thus my experiences and those of older men much wiser than I are relevant to the overall equation. What I want out of life is what I want and that's what I find important.

"No woman would"

A woman will never make you happy, it's the entire premise that your life can be completed or fulfilled by a woman that pre-determines you to be unhappy. It's this premise that she will instinctively recognize and not respect. It's this premise that is completely ignorant to what a woman wants and finds important in life. If you want to be successful, make your life successful. Get yourself healthy and healthy looking, well read, find things you enjoy and dominate them, find other men to share experiences with and strive to be the best that you can be because that is the kind of thing that is important. It's also going to get you laid and it's going to get you respected by women. Just remember that you're doing these things for yourself and because you want to, base your changes on anything else and you'll only feel disappointed and empty.

**Churchill** · 2012-12-30 18:44

I already posted tits and now you want dicks

**Lucienne** · 2012-12-30 18:45

Originally Posted by Churchill

I already posted tits and now you want dicks

I'm a woman, what do you expect. Impossible to please!

**Churchill** · 2012-12-30 18:48

not impossible

**Blubbartron** · 2012-12-30 18:55

Originally Posted by Churchill

I have asked myself that question and the answer is fairly simple. I have a certain personality and I don't care to be in a relationship with someone who is pretending or thinks she should have the same personality as me. I don't experience this often, but I've been a younger and more foolish man and thus I have experienced it. My personality is one that men naturally gravitate towards and thus my experiences and those of older men much wiser than I are relevant to the overall equation. What I want out of life is what I want and that's what I find important.

"No woman would"

A woman will never make you happy, it's the entire premise that your life can be completed or fulfilled by a woman that pre-determines you to be unhappy. It's this premise that she will instinctively recognize and not respect. It's this premise that is completely ignorant to what a woman wants and finds important in life. If you want to be successful, make your life successful. Get yourself healthy and healthy looking, well read, find things you enjoy and dominate them, find other men to share experiences with and strive to be the best that you can be because that is the kind of thing that is important. It's also going to get you laid and it's going to get you respected by women. Just remember that you're doing these things for yourself and because you want to, base your changes on anything else and you'll only feel disappointed and empty.

I can respect that you have developed your own taste in women. That's a perfectly natural thing to do. But stop asserting that your taste is superior and/or "correct."

Also, the "no woman would" thing makes more sense now. I can completely agree with the concept of getting your own shit straight before worrying about bringing someone else's shit into the mix. That's something that all men and women need to learn (one of the few generalizations I'll ever make, lol).

**Lucienne** · 2012-12-30 18:59

Originally Posted by Churchill

A woman will never make you happy, it's the entire premise that your life can be completed or fulfilled by a woman that pre-determines you to be unhappy. It's this premise that she will instinctively recognize and not respect. It's this premise that is completely ignorant to what a woman wants and finds important in life. If you want to be successful, make your life successful. Get yourself healthy and healthy looking, well read, find things you enjoy and dominate them, find other men to share experiences with and strive to be the best that you can be because that is the kind of thing that is important. It's also going to get you laid and it's going to get you respected by women. Just remember that you're doing these things for yourself and because you want to, base your changes on anything else and you'll only feel disappointed and empty.

Very true and applies to both genders.

**Churchill** · 2012-12-30 19:01

If you can tell me you've dated a woman and never wanted to just throw her into a wall, fuck her, and then go about whatever it was you were doing then I'll believe that my tastes are not for you.

If you have, then a part of you is suppressed and the sad thing is (for men like this) that women enjoy that part of a man. You don't need to ask permission and if your personality is such she'll be happy to oblige. Does that mean you pump and dump her every time she's in a hallway? Not at all, a little tenderness goes a long way. Asking, bargaining, pleading, etc for things, especially sex, are one way tickets to celibacy.

Edit: I'll add that seduction is much more a mans game, keeping that tension present is what makes her feel comfortable.

**shaddix** · 2012-12-30 19:16

What the fuck how did this turn into a real discussion without a flurry of infractions. I guess bg isn't so enraptured by the feminist imperative as I thought. I fully expected when I started that dialogue I would be labeled a troll and that would be the end of it.

**Brill Weave** · 2012-12-30 19:21

Originally Posted by shaddix

What the fuck how did this turn into a real discussion without a flurry of infractions. I guess bg isn't so enraptured by the feminist imperative as I thought. I fully expected when I started that dialogue I would be labeled a troll and that would be the end of it.

Irony is ironic.

**Abandon** · 2012-12-30 20:08

Finally, Bill Duke HAS COME BACK to GD

**noblemountain** · 2012-12-30 20:50

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...awsOfPower.jpg

Read it.

**Milkster** · 2012-12-30 21:36

This thread summed up in 4 minutes.

**Kohan** · 2012-12-31 03:26

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

I can respect that you have developed your own taste in women. That's a perfectly natural thing to do. But stop asserting that your taste is superior and/or "correct."

Also, the "no woman would" thing makes more sense now. I can completely agree with the concept of getting your own shit straight before worrying about bringing someone else's shit into the mix. That's something that all men and women need to learn (one of the few generalizations I'll ever make, lol).

I agree with this, particularly the bolded part. Church is free to have his own opinions, but they are not facts. It was noted previously that assertive people can be convincing, and that's what's problematic about strongly presenting opinion as truth. Tell your stories, share your experiences, and let those who indulge you draw their own conclusions—don't mislead by speaking with firm finality and what not.

If he only wishes to date women of a certain age, there's nothing wrong with that, so long as he's up front with them about his preferences. Why? It's quite simple: there are going to be women with similar preferences. Neither men nor women are uniquely special. As long as one doesn't deliberately mislead the other, I couldn't care less what either does. That doesn't mean that his feelings and generalizations should be universalized as the Golden Standard, though.

**Cream Soda** · 2012-12-31 03:32

Originally Posted by Lucienne

Btw, I'm totally cool with people posting dicks in my thread, as long as they're pretty. I much prefer that to having to read dumb shit.

Your wish is my command
Register to see the NSFW content[/NSFW][/NSFW]

**Apelila** · 2012-12-31 03:39

Originally Posted by Churchill

A woman will never make you happy, it's the entire premise that your life can be completed or fulfilled by a woman that pre-determines you to be unhappy. It's this premise that she will instinctively recognize and not respect. It's this premise that is completely ignorant to what a woman wants and finds important in life. If you want to be successful, make your life successful. Get yourself healthy and healthy looking, well read, find things you enjoy and dominate them, find other men to share experiences with and strive to be the best that you can be because that is the kind of thing that is important. It's also going to get you laid and it's going to get you respected by women. Just remember that you're doing these things for yourself and because you want to, base your changes on anything else and you'll only feel disappointed and empty.

So up until this I wasn't sure if you where incredibly misogynistic or just asserting that a man who invests themselves completely in their mate is a setting themselves up for failure.

I'll agree with the later, but only on the premise that anyone who invests that much into their partner is an idiot. I think a man can draw support from a partner in ways that other social interactions cannot duplicate, without the need for one side or the other to be either completely assertive and dominate or submissive and passive.
Granted I'm coming at this from the standpoint of a gay man, so I may be way out of touch with what you're trying to get at with women needing a partner to be assertive ; but if that's the case then holy shit you straight people get a terrible deal.

**Churchill** · 2012-12-31 03:55

Just home. Gay men and their interactions with each other are not a good example because you're still men. If one is submissive or not, your reactions and thought processes are still tuned from your point of view. A good example of this is when Kuya gets upset at women because he thinks gay men have better taste in men than women do. Gay men like Kuya can focus almost entirely on the physical aspect of the man, while a woman could completely skip the same man and go for a guy that almost makes him throw up.

Assertive is not the right word either. It literally is about power. Being strong and assertive is what people tell women and bitch ass men to do.

Originally Posted by Kohan

I agree with this, particularly the bolded part. Church is free to have his own opinions, but they are not facts. It was noted previously that assertive people can be convincing, and that's what's problematic about strongly presenting opinion as truth. Tell your stories, share your experiences, and let those who indulge you draw their own conclusions—don't mislead by speaking with firm finality and what not.

If he only wishes to date women of a certain age, there's nothing wrong with that, so long as he's up front with them about his preferences. Why? It's quite simple: there are going to be women with similar preferences. Neither men nor women are uniquely special. As long as one doesn't deliberately mislead the other, I couldn't care less what either does. That doesn't mean that his feelings and generalizations should be universalized as the Golden Standard, though.

I'm curious what your actual counter is other than saying I'm free to think what I want. (No shit)

**shaddix** · 2012-12-31 04:06

I feel as though I would be doing someone a disservice if I didn't try to argue that the younger a woman is the more sexually attractive she is. This is some kind of conflict between biology and feminism here, the younger they are the more fertile as well. If we believe that indicators of fertility are one of the largest motivations for sexual attraction, then do we not accept that the younger they are the more sexually attractive they are? Maybe this has already been established and I am beating a dead horse.

**Kohan** · 2012-12-31 04:19

Originally Posted by Churchill

I'm curious what your actual counter is other than saying I'm free to think what I want. (No shit)

Is a counter necessary? You've stated within your own posts that you're uninterested in using words like "most," "many," etc., but you are simultaneously comfortable with being assertive. The problem with avoiding the former is that it leaves your speech implying that your statements are somehow qualified (e.g., by research), but you provide no proof, which means that everything you've stated is opinion. If someone never read the post where you noted that you know your opinions aren't universal, they would not glean that understanding from everything else you've said.

**Apelila** · 2012-12-31 07:30

Originally Posted by Churchill

Just home. Gay men and their interactions with each other are not a good example because you're still men. If one is submissive or not, your reactions and thought processes are still tuned from your point of view. A good example of this is when Kuya gets upset at women because he thinks gay men have better taste in men than women do. Gay men like Kuya can focus almost entirely on the physical aspect of the man, while a woman could completely skip the same man and go for a guy that almost makes him throw up.

Assertive is not the right word either. It literally is about power. Being strong and assertive is what people tell women and bitch ass men to do.

No offense to Kuya, but he isn't a good cross section of what gay men like or are like. For myself, the guy could be the hottest man I've ever laid eyes on but if he's an asshole the only thing I'm ever going to use him for is fun in the sack, if I even want to get that far. Usually very attractive guys under 30 are so self absorbed that it's not about what they can do for you, but what can you do for them. Which quite frankly is how you're coming across a bit. I agree with a lot of what you've said in relation to people having to have self respect before they can get respect from another person. I don't agree that there's a magic age range where people are more desirable based on physical appearance alone, regardless of gender, and that once you cross that threshold you are suddenly off the market.

Certainly there is a stronger physical aspect to how men choose to form relationships, however this is not more true in gay men - there is always a gravitation towards certain physical attributes in men regardless of sexual identity. It is not an absolute. I've met men who don't place an importance on looks whatsoever. If they're not good looking themselves is that them adjusting their expectations to fit their position, or their position shaping their expectations?

To go further: I'm legitimately confused if I'm understanding your position correctly. You state matter-of-factly that women past a certain age lose their attractiveness over their younger counterparts. Using the guideline that men, as a rule, judge potential mates on their physical attractiveness then doesn't that mean there are groups of men across all ages who find different age groups attractive? Meaning that while you find a woman who is 30 to be less attractive to you than she was at 24, to another man she is now more attractive?

Also, your statement that a woman can completely ignore all physical aspects of a man so long as the personality is turns them on makes zero sense to me. I have never known a woman in a relationship with a man who was fugly to the max unless the man was seriously overcompensating with money. That's not being assertive, that's being a sugar daddy. To wit, I have known some women who simply like older men, and are cautious and meticulous in finding one who doesn't treat them like either a piece of property or with an attitude.

I guess I just see your view as a double standard. Women can't get better with age but men can. Some of the arguments I'm seeing, such as fertility and attitude depend on factors that are in no way dependent on the womans outward appearance.

**shaddix** · 2012-12-31 08:23

It's absolutely a double standard and is one of the main points being made. Woe to be a female if you're interested in dating because your looks basically set the ceiling. Your ability to attract a mate peaks in your early twenties, and it's all downhill from there, until you hit the so called wall. This can happen in early thirties for a woman who eats shitty, smokes, and lays in tanning beds all day. For others it can be in their forties. Whenever it happens, it's a precipitous drop from wherever they stood in their younger days. They know it too, hence the change in priorities in the late twenties.

For men, yes looks can play a role, but primarily over if you have some deformity. Assuming you're just an average guy, nothing special looks wise, your value to women comes primarily from your behavior. The situation is much better for men than for women, where a man's attractiveness peaks in his mid to late thirties, and the decline is much slower.

Examine the traditional marriage situation for example. A young couple weds in their early twenties or late teens. The wife has her youth and beauty which the husband enjoys for many years. As the mans ability to provide increases with age, the wife begins to reap the benefits of a mature man who can provide for their family.
Instead of this, today, we have women who ride the cock carousel for their prime years and then move to lock down a nice beta provider in their thirties. For traditional marriage, this is a disaster. But it is what it is. I personally would be willing to marry a virtuous woman that is ten years my junior(I find the suggestion to marry someone my own age laughable). Alabama prenups are supposedly iron clad, unlike some other states such as New Jersey. So I think I could probably weather a divorce down the line and not end up paying alimony for ten years to a woman who has her own livelihood.

A mans response to this situation though, should be to become part of the cock carousel. It's interesting because the cock carousel is generally only the top 10% of men, while the other 90% wait on the scraps when the women's "priorities change". Luckily, as mentioned earlier, a man can much more easily alter his sexual value to women by improving his life and changing his behavior.

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