New SoA Trailer 2012.12.27

[arus2001]

Didn't we establish that WUT was code for Working Under Tanaka or something?

He'll need a new response now.

I forgot about making that silly pic...

Spoiler: show

[Francisco]

On Spira's page, he makes reference to something called "The Big Bridge" - is this terminology from the game .dats themselves, or Spira's own wording?

I know we already have a FFXI Gilgamesh - but a guy can hope, right?

[TummieGaruda]

What I find most interesting about this expansion is that zones will be "active" and have the ability to change based on player involvement. For instance, a pathway that was there last week is no longer there due to rapid growth of trees. It will make some zones a pain to traverse but will make exploring a lot more fun. I see good things coming from this expansion...just hope they don't mess it up.

[Tarage]

What I find most interesting about this expansion is that zones will be "active" and have the ability to change based on player involvement. For instance, a pathway that was there last week is no longer there due to rapid growth of trees. It will make some zones a pain to traverse but will make exploring a lot more fun. I see good things coming from this expansion...just hope they don't mess it up.

Guild Wars 2 did it best. There are waypoints that can get taken by the enemy. If you fail an event chain, stuff changes. But that change only lasts a few hours or so before it either resets or another chain starts to fix it. And it never blocks content.

[arus2001]

I'd argue GW2 didn't take it far enough. Yes, blocking content is bad, but actually keeping those points didn't amount to much (unless you give a shit about some dungeons) and as an individual player, there was usually fuck all you could do to retake them until an event started. Much as we hate the word, balancing the effort it takes to capture/keep an area is important. If it winds up looking like Campaign where the only time that matters is 8 hours before conquest tally, no thanks. On the other hand, you shouldn't need the entire server to help hold spots. There should be some reasonable decay to the process, like a slowly enclosing circle instead of some random spot inside it going dark just because. But players also need good reasons to keep these areas, and that ultimately means gear: through NMs, craft materials, quests, etc..

[Kaisha]

What I find most interesting about this expansion is that zones will be "active" and have the ability to change based on player involvement. For instance, a pathway that was there last week is no longer there due to rapid growth of trees. It will make some zones a pain to traverse but will make exploring a lot more fun. I see good things coming from this expansion...just hope they don't mess it up.

And if this is really the case, I hope the devs learned to put in check for people who are obviously ignoring the laws of physics just to get around faster.

[Toth]

Well, there are supposedly places of power we can use for our characters to become stronger (maybe like an outside atma system). Maybe those buffs will be tied into what areas we find / keep.

[ronin sparthos]

I'd argue GW2 didn't take it far enough. Yes, blocking content is bad, but actually keeping those points didn't amount to much (unless you give a shit about some dungeons) and as an individual player, there was usually fuck all you could do to retake them until an event started. Much as we hate the word, balancing the effort it takes to capture/keep an area is important. If it winds up looking like Campaign where the only time that matters is 8 hours before conquest tally, no thanks. On the other hand, you shouldn't need the entire server to help hold spots. There should be some reasonable decay to the process, like a slowly enclosing circle instead of some random spot inside it going dark just because. But players also need good reasons to keep these areas, and that ultimately means gear: through NMs, craft materials, quests, etc..

This.

Keeping points from the enemy should be something you worry about and should have serious consequences if you fuck up. It shouldn't be the old "this week we have X, Y and Z areas shut down" because all that meant in the past is if your JP/EU squad was shit there was very little you could do to change the outcome. SE wants to dabble in questchains? Fine, but make it worthwhile or its just wasted dev time like Campaign turned out to eventually be.

[Damane]

This.

Keeping points from the enemy should be something you worry about and should have serious consequences if you fuck up. It shouldn't be the old "this week we have X, Y and Z areas shut down" because all that meant in the past is if your JP/EU squad was shit there was very little you could do to change the outcome. SE wants to dabble in questchains? Fine, but make it worthwhile or its just wasted dev time like Campaign turned out to eventually be.

I had the "if your NA squad is shit" experience with trying to overcome zones in the past for Fiat Lux. Usually went very good during JP prime and EU prime and then when JPs and EUs went to sleep and it was time for NA prime everything went back 0.

[TummieGaruda]

I had the "if your NA squad is shit" experience with trying to overcome zones in the past for Fiat Lux. Usually went very good during JP prime and EU prime and then when JPs and EUs went to sleep and it was time for NA prime everything went back 0.

Now that you bring it up I hope that they don't do something like this and the decay is much slower. For instance, they mentioned that we will be able to setup outpost. I suspect that there will be certain spots that will allow this such as a marker that says "This seems like a good spot for an outpost but there isn't enough space to build" and you need to clear away rocks and trees. Once that is done it will require XYZ materials to "build" the outpost and once it is completed NPC merchants will appear. Hopefully the decay is something along the lines of supplies needing to be delivered to the outpost over a very long period of time to keep the outpost from disappearing and being taken over by the jungle. In terms of decay, the conquest tally system doesn't work because that makes it so everyone does what they can to keep it at the last minute. Each outpost or decay timer should be separate from each other and the time/speed of decay should be based on variables such as weather and maybe creatures attacking the outpost.

Also, I think that SE might do something a little different with the maps in that our maps of areas will change based on the guild work done by the exploration guild. Hopefully our maps magically refresh themselves with updated info so we don't have to go to an NPC to have our maps updated with the new info on new/closed pathways in the jungle.

[Spira]

Well, there are supposedly places of power we can use for our characters to become stronger (maybe like an outside atma system). Maybe those buffs will be tied into what areas we find / keep.

when i heard mention of it, the thought that came to my mind was Diablo-esque stat shrines that would randomly appear around the zone. considering the MMO context, it'd probably make more sense if the buffs it gave stayed up 30min or something, to be even worth getting.

I'm thinking it'd give bonuses like EXP, HP, MP, STR, Acc, etc.. or even combinations of them like any 3 random stats.. but would need to be pretty substantial too.

..anyway i was just rewatching the trailer and lol.. the prospect of fighting mantids as normal mobs instead of in vw/legion excites me a little.

[Morari]

One thing that I just remembered this morning was SE telling us they were going to build on top of the current merit system with new sort of exp reward distinct from exp or limit points. Perhaps Adoulin will be the only place where earning these new points would be viable in large amounts, in part because of the pioneering mechanic they're implementing there?

[Ophannus]

They need a tier 3 merit system or something because I don't know if you've noticed but job growth 90->99 is extremely lacking except for a few jobs, mostly mages. Most melee hardly get anything 91-99 except maybe another tier of a trait and possibly a utility JA, but nothing really major. The original SP2's should have been level 99 JAs on a 10min timer or something. I expected at 99 most jobs would have gotten an ultimate spell or ultimate JA. Only WHM and BLM got those i.e Arise/Meteor.

WAR should have gotten another badass JA.
MNK should have a JA haste ability.
DRG should have gotten an Alt-Super Jump that deals damage and gives 4x TP
DRK should have gotten Stun II or something
RDM should have gotten Haste II or some kind of unique badass debuff
etc...
Just seems like 91-99 most jobs really didn't grow very much, maybe 91-95 but when the 96-99 level cap came out, most jobs got like a Critical Defense Bonus or Shield Mastery or Resist Poison trait, a few points of HP/MP and some attributes but no new skills, spells or JA. Felt shorthanded in the 95-99 level cap especially since it was only 4 levels instead of 5.

[Slycer]

They need a tier 3 merit system or something because I don't know if you've noticed but job growth 90->99 is extremely lacking except for a few jobs, mostly mages.

There was a period of time that practically every version update included a considerable amount of job adjustments, in the form of new spells/abilities or updated mechanics to IMPROVE (not nerf) that job's function. This has all but stopped over the past couple years since the cap was raised to 99, but I'd have to think a lot of that was refocused development effort toward either FFXIV or Adoulin (likely both). I'm hoping that after Adoulin's release (or maybe as part of its release), they go back to implementing positive adjustments and new abilities/spells.

[Ophannus]

It was my hope that when they nerf Embrava/PD that they divy up the buffs that those abilities once gave, to other jobs in other forms. Give the status ailment blocking aoe effect to WHM's new SP2(they're doing this), buff up Adoloquiem under Tabula Rasa so it gives 3-5 TP/tick, like how regens are buffed under Tabula Rasa, give RDM Haste II, give BLU "Mighty Wall" that gives them a powerful Sentinel-like effect for physical and magic damage for 30 seconds that can be extended to AoE with diffusion, etc. Some jobs need more growth in terms of usability. Mainly THF, RDM, PLD, DRG, BLU, SMN. As for SAM, MNK, WAR, DRK, WHM, BLM, BRD, COR, these jobs basically never need to be touched again. NIN, RNG, PUP, DNC, SCH BST could use slight changes, modifications but nothing as substantial as the ones I listed already.

[drwaffles]

There was a period of time that practically every version update included a considerable amount of job adjustments, in the form of new spells/abilities or updated mechanics to IMPROVE (not nerf) that job's function. This has all but stopped over the past couple years since the cap was raised to 99, but I'd have to think a lot of that was refocused development effort toward either FFXIV or Adoulin (likely both). I'm hoping that after Adoulin's release (or maybe as part of its release), they go back to implementing positive adjustments and new abilities/spells.

The problem with that, though, is that positive adjustments are only compatible with enemies that offer a legitimate challenge to powerful PCs. This has been a problem the devs haven't shown much aptitude for solving for years now.

[Spira]

i have an expectation that SoA is meant to balance out the status quo at 99. it seemed to be the case that they stopped tweaking older job abilities and jobs in general because of the flux that came with new abilities after the cap was raised.. and for a while i think it's actually not that easy or even pointless to do it because the next level cap raise will go on to screw this balance up again.

i hope that they'll start putting in real job adjustments again, because it'll likely be necessary in light of the introduction of GEO and RNF. and also because SoA would be the first open world place where content can be designed with lv99 in mind. I think this makes a difference because as it stands, all realistic lv99 encounters are battlefields where mobs are designed to be ridiculous compared to a normal battle.. and the way job balancing and JA is utilized in such scenarios would be very different from normal battle.
this in turn only made the whole zerg or die scenario worse..

all jobs will need some form of review. SoA might present a paradigm shift in the way jobs are utilized. hopefully in the upheaval some of the jobs that are currently left out of the mix will get a bit more of the limelight again. i expect SoA to revolutionize tanking as well.. so it should be good for PLDs too.

[Sho]

As long as they stay away from temporary item bullshit, create reasonable ways to mitigate retarded AOE damage (especially for tanks), and rework the enmity system, it will be a successful expansion.

[TummieGaruda]

For the new areas, I think that the battlefields should be a mix of NNI/Assault reward system with VW having an item that people seek while also having a craftable alternative that has less stats. For instance and item like Ocelomeh/Toci's: Players do a battlefield and the main boss has a chance to drop Toci's. If the players defeat this boss, regardless of drops, everyone gets a KI or points. Players can then use those points or assembled KI's (Like NNI) to purchase the Ocelomeh body. At least at this point, everyone walks out with something.

[Selamis]

I think they said that they wanted to do that going forward, forget if it was from Matsui or one of the devs relaying info, but I recall hearing they wanted to setup future content with that in mind, a points system to redeem items if not obtained via treasure pools.