2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Niiro]

http://oathkeepers.org

Just because, there is a major militia that has chapters in all 50 states. It's made up of current and former military members, police, firemen, and emergency responders. Most recently they made their presence known at the Ferguson protests and protecting military recruitment centers after the drive-by.

I'm sure there are MLP fanclubs that span all 50 states as well.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

I'm a threeper, myself. Oathkeepers are very much a thing as well.

Handwave harder.

[mallister]

I'm pro gun, pro universal health care, pro planned parenthood, and believe more money and research needs to be invested in mental health. Does that make me a unicorn?

this is me. it does make political discussion 'interesting' with family and friends.

[Churchill]

It's never going to get to that point. There's literally 0 chance that an organized revolt of any kind will have the time to get off the ground before the government squashes it.

How would the government squash it.

We had actual plans on what we would do in such a situation and none of them involved shooting americans.

[Byrthnoth]

If I am not mistsken, the civil war 2nd ammendment argument goes something like this: the people of the United States are unskilled at war and are hopelessly outgunned by their military at the moment, but it would be worse if we restricted their gun rights further. Plus, if there is a civil war we can expect a substantial portion of the military to defect and bring their training and weaponry with them.

If you are already relying on military defection to make a civil war viable (as if making a civil war viable was a good justification for anything), then why does the untrained populace need weaponry? They are not bringing sufficient firepower to make a difference when fighting the army, and they are going to need military training anyway or they will just be a bunch of amateurs with automatic weapons. So why let them be idiots with automatic weapons without even the civil war?

[Fiye]

I think a Civil War would only be viable in the US if there were economic interest in it. As it stands not a lot of companies would benefit from a war between the states. I couldn't imagine any single topic would exist create a huge rift in the U.S.

Right now #YesImAChristian is trending and I'm sitting here thinking "Congratulations? A single man brings their second amendment right to college campus and breaks the law by committing mass murder and now you feel persecuted?"

Its like, welcome to June 17th, 2015. Oh wait I didn't see #YesImAMethodist flying around then.

Here's the deal, the guy in question had issues.

This shit seems to be feeding itself now. Oregon shooter references Roanoke Shooter, who referenced Virginia Tech as his home boy and Charleston Shooter, who referenced Zimmerman. Its like something happens to these people, where their mental state deteriorates to a point where instead of committing suicide they decide they want to go out in a Rampage. And whether they use someone else's gun, purchase a gun recently, or use one of their legally owned guns they commit this heinous act.

Its not the possession of guns I'm worried about. In my time in the Navy (Navy Nuclear Propulsion Program) I've gotten to meet plenty of people who own one to several guns. People who go out and hunt, take the time to practice on a target, or keep it by their bed for safety.

I see a lot of posts about Chicago being crime ridden while they completely ban guns, but on another look through Gat Guns you have a process that involves getting a state ID saying you're allowed to purchase a firearm. Once you have this card you have to be a legal adult, wait 24 or 72 hours, some BAFTE form if you don't have the ID, an instant background check, and then bam you have your weapon.

One of the harshest anti-gun laws right there and the most that happens is an instant background check and a 3 day wait. And yet we wonder why people with mental health issues are committing these crimes.

But I suppose we'll see you folks next month when this happens again.

[Quicklet]

It's never going to get to that point. There's literally 0 chance that an organized revolt of any kind will have the time to get off the ground before the government squashes it.

Case in point: Occupy Wall Street. The only thing that can sustain a large scale movement like that is for economic conditions to be so bad for such a large number of people for a prolonged enough time that the inevitable struggle against government is not a big enough deterrent to lose steam against an organized effort by government and business to stop it. The Great Recession is the closest we've been to those conditions in decades.

--

It's become apparent within 24 hours of the shooting that opinion is not going to shift much on the gun control debate. I do think public figures who are opponents of gun control find themselves a little more uncomfortable, as most of the arguments I've been seeing amount to "there's nothing we can do to stop it, so why bother trying?" Nevertheless, this is the reality we get to live with while Republicans maintain a legislative advantage on the state and federal level.

In the meantime, what I would be interested in seeing is a comprehensive research effort on all the factors that contribute to these mass shootings: guns, mental health, social media, mainstream media, etc. From a statistical perspective, mass shootings share a lot in common with hurricanes, earthquakes, and other semi-random, sporadic events. You can't predict individual data points, but you can find trends and patterns. I know there has been some work done on this, but it seems relatively limited in scope and depth. From what we do know, gun availability is likely a significant factor in the rate of these events, but there are still many things we can't be sure about that are taken for granted. Collecting and analyzing more data would help us determine which laws we can craft that would be the most effective in reducing how often this happens.

[thetruepandagod]

In the meantime, what I would be interested in seeing is a comprehensive research effort on all the factors that contribute to these mass shootings: guns, mental health, social media, mainstream media, etc. From a statistical perspective, mass shootings share a lot in common with hurricanes, earthquakes, and other semi-random, sporadic events. You can't predict individual data points, but you can find trends and patterns. I know there has been some work done on this, but it seems relatively limited in scope and depth. From what we do know, gun availability is likely a significant factor in the rate of these events, but there are still many things we can't be sure about that are taken for granted. Collecting and analyzing more data would help us determine which laws we can craft that would be the most effective in reducing how often this happens.

Mass shootings are such an insignificant part of gun violence, but black kids shooting each other in the face every day doesn't have the same wow factor I suppose. Not that i'm arguing one of those, oh this is worse than the other so ignore the former scenarios. There is a lot of data and research on the day to day gun homicides and nothing is done in regards to that, the unhealthy media worship of mass shootings may bring the gun debate to light which it needs to be, but in all the wrong ways turning it into isolated incidents of lone freaks needing mental help which is such a laughable minority it's pathetic. I wish some of these school shooters would start blowing up shit with fertilizer mcveigh style since guns imo aren't the primary factor of their crimes. With regulation and practical laws you can cut down on A LOT of gun crimes and violence that happen on a day to day basis, but short of erasing guns from existence you will do little to stop freak anomalies that are school shooters and those that are inspired and encouraged by them.

[Siatdiat]

We need to make all guns illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs right?

[Ragnus]

It worked for Australia. The problem is that America love's it's half measures when it comes to reform. Like in Chicago, you can't just turn around and be like "Oh hey. Handguns are illegal now." and expect everyone to stop. You need to have buyback programs that aren't a fucking ripoff, stop gun shows from selling guns to literally anyone, and take the measure to the federal level so that the flow of illegal weaponry from more gun happy states is harder to keep going.

It's like marijuana in CO. The surrounding states are complaining about the influx of pot from CO because it's legal there. When something is legal in one state and illegal in the other, it's always harder on the state trying to restrict things.

[kuronosan]

We need to make all guns illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs right?

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.

[Byrthnoth]

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.

What? Guns aren't drugs? I'm pretty sure I've seen some gun addicts out there, like the one on the news a few days ago who brought his guns to school for show and tell.


Really though, the original comparison was terrible. If you're willing to generalize the failure of drug regulation to every other kind of regulation, why stop with guns?

We need to make all rape illegal. Hey, well it worked with drugs, right?
We need to make toxic chemical dumping illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs, right?
We need to make murder illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs, right?
We need to make the more subtle forms of bribery illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs, right?
We need to make bullying someone until they commit suicide illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs, right?
We need to make tax evasion via offshore bank accounts illegal. Hey, it worked with drugs, right?

[Melena]

Ugh so a friend posts an article from a news site I never heard of claiming the guy was an Isis synthesizer and did the shooting for them. I look at the site and I could not figure out if it was right wing onion (had an article that Obama was going to end thanksgiving for peta) or a site that made Fox News look sane and say as much. His friend calls me a libtard for bringing up right wing and opened up the door myself. My brain can not handle this level of stupidity.

[thetruepandagod]

What? Guns aren't drugs? I'm pretty sure I've seen some gun addicts out there, like the one on the news a few days ago who brought his guns to school for show and tell.


Really though, the original comparison was terrible. If you're willing to generalize the failure of drug regulation to every other kind of regulation, why stop with guns?

Isis synthesizer.

[Salodin]

No wonder ISIS is so good at recruiting; they have the dopest beats.

[Blubbartron]

No wonder ISIS is so good at recruiting; they have the dopest beats.

Their production value in general is extraordinarily high. Seriously, quality stuff. It's kind of like a really awesome action movie until you realize that dude getting his head chopped off is actually really happening somewhere.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

It worked for Australia.

Respectfully disagree. I would also disagree with the UK's gun control policy but it's hard to accurately track gun violence due to difference in their reporting and tracking of crime.

[6souls]

Cause of death for the Oregon shooter has been revealed, suicide.

[Galkaeater]

also

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/music-vl...oiseytwitterus

[Churchill]

oy vey