2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Niiro]

If gun owning felons were enough of the population to effect voting outcomes we would have been long since fucked as a nation.

[6souls]

My favorite gun control video

[6souls]

So the BBC has an article up where the Oregon mother claims her son was the mastermind of all of the guns, but a new article up on CNN examines online posts made by her about her extensive knowledge on guns.

Both the mother and son have aspergers if that matters.

Sources and additional information:

• http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34450062
  
  • http://www.people.com/article/oregon...e-was-born-bad
  • http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/us...-firearms.html

A police source told the Associated Press that Mercer complained in the document about not having a girlfriend.

He also wrote that everyone else was "crazy" and that he was the sane one.

Mercer is also said to have written that other mass killers "were denied everything they deserved and wanted" before going on to say he did not believe anything could "make me realise I had so much going for me"

Police have interviewed Ms Harper and she told them that Mercer had been suffering from mental problems.

Ms Harper, a nurse, posted on websites over past several years about the difficulties of having a son with Asperger's syndrome, a form of autism that she also suffered from.

Ms Harper also wrote about her son's knowledge of firearms, saying he was her main source of information about guns and revealing they kept Kalashnikov and Armalite semi-automatic rifles and a Glock handgun in the house.

Police recovered a total of 14 firearms and spare ammunition magazines that had been bought legally by Mercer or a relative.

Mercer had been discharged from the US Army in 2008 after failing to complete basic training.

Summer Smith, the mother of one of the survivors, said Mercer singled out her son, Matthew, and decided not to kill him.

"The shooter asked him to give the police something, and that if he did, he would live," Ms Smith told CNN on Monday.

Ms Smith said Matthew was handed an envelope, with what appeared to be a thumb-size computer hard drive inside.

He then was forced to watch as Mercer shot and killed his classmates, Ms Smith said.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/us/ore...sts/index.html

Laurel Harper's apparent online writings come in the form of posts to several websites, usually about health topics. The bulk of the postings were on forums such as Yahoo! Answers and comments on NurseTogether.

Public records link Harper to the same email address used in these posts from a Yahoo! user calling herself "Tweety Bird."

The postings, first reported by The New York Times, make references to Harper having a son who has a disorder on the autism spectrum and of the family having strong pro-gun views.

In response to a question posted on Yahoo! Answers three years ago, the account linked to Harper complains about "lame states" that consider a loaded magazine inside the home the same as having a loaded gun.

"I keep all my mags full. I keep two full mags in my Glock case. And the ARs & AKs all have loaded mags. No one will be 'dropping' by my house uninvited without (acknowledgment)," the user Tweety Bird wrote.

State records show that Laurel Harper is a licensed practical nurse in Oregon.

In several posts, she makes references to having Asperger syndrome, considered to be on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum. She also makes references to her son having the same developmental disorder.

While dispensing advice on handling anxiety five years ago, Harper purportedly wrote online that "I have Asperger's and I didn't do so bad. Wasn't easy (understatement) but it can be done."

Autism spectrum disorders can cause significant social impairments, communication problems and restricted, repetitive behavior patterns. But studies have shown there is no direct link between Asperger's and violence. The question was also raised three years ago, after Adam Lanza, who was said to have Asperger's, killed 26 children and adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

[Sho]

Why the ban and/or restriction of JHP?

Anything more than $3-5 and I would just 100% handload because I don't consider instantly doubling the price of 20-50 count boxes of common caliber worth it. Would there be exemptions of BGC or purchase limitations for competitive shooters? What level of documentation would be kept? Same as existing background checks?

Don't forget that carrot also carries benefits to the liberal side. Gun owners (who tend to lean conservative) who fuck up would also lose their voting rights. It could nearly cripple one of the largest platforms Republicans stand on.

Don't forget that gang violence is one of the largest contributing factors to gun death statistics and this could make a huge change. But they use pistols and revolvers. Why such the hateboner for banning scary black assault rifles when they account for a very small fraction of gun violence? And if we want to count automatics there have been a grand total of four cases of convicted criminal murder with a FA since the NFA law was passed. In 1934.

Essentially it should only be restricted to pistols for self defense, with a limitation around that purpose. Considering how FMJ rounds work in comparison, I admit it's a pretty weak argument.

Exemptions for competitive shooters (my friend is one). As far as documentation, it would of course be logged, but it would have to be a much more powerful logging system than NICS. With that said, such a system doesn't even exist (and was one of provisions Cuomo fell down upon with NY SAFE), but it's not outside of the realm of possibility since we live in a world of Big Data and Cloud computing.

If it were me, they'd lose much more than just voting rights depending on the severity. Loss of voting rights is a pretty damn large hit though, strongest counter argument that you've mentioned.

As for assault rifles, it cycles back to what I said previously -- I know full well they don't even amount to even 10% (or even 5%) of the gun violence, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be restrictions on them as well. I mean dude who committed the Sandy Hook shootings used a Bushmaster. Do we really want to risk this happening again (no matter how small the rate of incident)? We should be more proactive about laws than reactive, I believe. I still champion the fact that Clinton at least got an assault weapon ban to pass, even if it had a sunset clause and no teeth at all.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Would you want your tax dollars and government to save the lives of a thousand with stricter control on pistols and revolvers or would you want it to go towards saving the lives of a couple dozen with stricter(er) laws on rifles? Is that your question?

I'll point out that this last event a pistol was used to kill nine. And Cho Seung-Hui killed 32 with a 9mm pistol. A pistol was used to publicly execute Alison Parker and Adam Ward. George Hennard used two pistols to kill 23. Patrick Sherrill went postal on 14 people using three pistols. Dylann Roof used a .45 ACP pistol to kill nine in a church. Scott Evans Dekraai used three pistols to kill eight.

My answer is pistols.

[BerenTebogo]

Most non-mass shooting is a result of handguns as well I believe. By an overwhelming majority.

[Andalusian girls]

ban handguns

[Sho]

Pistols of course in that case. I understand the point you're making.

[Blubbartron]

Small disclaimer. The store isn't real, the customers were not real, Ned Luke is the store owner, Ned Luke was also the VA for Micheal in GTA5, and almost all the firearms shown were airshit and not actually real. Especially in NYC where they probably would've been crucified for possession of illegal assault weapons, media campaign or not.

Do you have any source that even the customers were not real? Of course the store and owner were not real. It's self-described as a social experiment. The reactions look pretty genuine to me, so I'd definitely need a source that says those customers were all actors and in on it.

[Apelila]

This is the single worst thread I ever started in the history of the Internet.

'Merica.

[6souls]

This is the single worst thread I ever started in the history of the Internet.

'Merica.

And we thank you for that.

[6souls]

Do you have any source that even the customers were not real? Of course the store and owner were not real. It's self-described as a social experiment. The reactions look pretty genuine to me, so I'd definitely need a source that says those customers were all actors and in on it.

I cannot find anything about the customers being fake, but I found it interesting that the space used is normally an art gallery.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lly-sell-guns/


Here we go:

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/grou...-store-facade/
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266266993/PSA-Permit-310
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266267126/PSA-Permit-311
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266267307/PSA-Permit-312

[Blubbartron]

I cannot find anything about the customers being fake, but I found it interesting that the space used is normally an art gallery.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lly-sell-guns/


Here we go:

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/grou...-store-facade/
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266266993/PSA-Permit-310
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266267126/PSA-Permit-311
https://www.scribd.com/doc/266267307/PSA-Permit-312

Well shit. They're pretty talented actors in that case.

[BaneTheBrawler]

This is the single worst thread I ever started in the history of the Internet.

'Merica.

Get on my level.

[archibaldcrane]

Well shit. They're pretty talented actors in that case.

It's not really a smoking gun, they very well may have been using the word "actors" in the film permit as an alternative to "talent', meaning basically "anyone appearing on screen".

Obviously it's not a real gun shop, they show in the beginning of the video that they created the fake store just for this purpose.

I've edited a number of these hidden camera shows where some people are in on it and others aren't, it would be simple to have them be real people, I see no reason why they would jeopardize the integrity of the experiment by having them all be planted.

[BerenTebogo]

It's not really a smoking gun, they very well may have been using the word "actors" in the film permit as an alternative to "talent', meaning basically "anyone appearing on screen".

Obviously it's not a real gun shop, they show in the beginning of the video that they created the fake store just for this purpose.

I've edited a number of these hidden camera shows where some people are in on it and others aren't, it would be simple to have them be real people, I see no reason why they would jeopardize the integrity of the experiment by having them all be planted.

FWIW there is literally zero experiment here so as a result there can be no integrity of an experiment that doesn't exist.

If anything this is art, not science. It gets across a good point imo either way, but there is absolutely not a trace of experiment in that video.

[Inshiya]

Edit: Mis-post.

[archibaldcrane]

FWIW there is literally zero experiment here so as a result there can be no integrity of an experiment that doesn't exist.

If anything this is art, not science. It gets across a good point imo either way, but there is absolutely not a trace of experiment in that video.

Oh for fucks sake great the word police is here, I'm so sorry I desecrated your science word.

[BerenTebogo]

Oh for fucks sake great the word police is here, I'm so sorry I desecrated your science word.

Not so much that, but you suggested you would be surprised that they violated the integrity of the experiment. If it isn't an experiment, but rather art, there is no reason to be surprised about any decisions they make. There are no constraints on art. They could lie point-blank if they want, they can have the whole thing be 100% staged, etc. That is why I highlighted the difference. There is no expectation of the producers to be beholden to anything other than the resultant emotions generated by their work, however they come about.

Sometimes distinctions aren't just for distinction's sake.

[archibaldcrane]

Not so much that, but you suggested you would be surprised that they violated the integrity of the experiment. If it isn't an experiment, but rather art, there is no reason to be surprised about any decisions they make. There are no constraints on art. They could lie point-blank if they want, they can have the whole thing be 100% staged, etc. That is why I highlighted the difference. There is no expectation of the producers to be beholden to anything other than the resultant emotions generated by their work, however they come about.

Sometimes distinctions aren't just for distinction's sake.

For the "art piece" to have the desired effect, it's important that the customers are real people. Look at this very thread where they are being dismissed IF they are actors. The integrity of the message is compromised if the customers are not exhibiting real contemporaneous reactions.

I'd be surprised if they are actors because it would be exceptionally simple for them to be real people and get similar reactions, and if they used actors (and the viewers become aware) the message is compromised.