2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[archibaldcrane]

Not happening. See McDonald v City of Chicago. Scalia opened the door with Heller and Alito took the ball and ran with it. States can't infringe on the 2nd Amendment as it is currently interpreted.

Heller was only a 5-4 decision, and one of those 5 ain't around here anymore. Hilldog gonna actually take all yer guns, gonna be so tight.

[dasva]

A Chinese train station isn't a soft target? It's no military base or police station and target density is through the roof. They probably could have optimized it by picking a busier station and doing it during morning rush hour, but 20 people stabbed per assailant is already a pretty high score. The conversion rate between knife wound and fatality is just low, which is the whole point.

I mean, imagine everyone in a given area spontaneously decides to play tag with you and you're "it." Could you tag 20 people?

I mean sure by those standards but then so are most the U.S. ones too... you'd also be surprised how soft a military base can be. Yes I understand your point. Again I was just pointing out shit does still happen nothing more nothing less.

Idk are there tag backs?

[dasva]

So what's your answer to the problem?

Foster a culture less in love with violence and force and pushing the blame of personal actions onto other people and inanimate objects. Greater focus on mental health. Complete overhaul of school and prison systems. Probably think of a few other things but saved by the... well company

[Salodin]

I mean sure by those standards but then so are most the U.S. ones too... you'd also be surprised how soft a military base can be. Yes I understand your point. Again I was just pointing out shit does still happen nothing more nothing less.

Idk are there tag backs?

So you'd rather shoot immediately for zero deaths in society due to similar circumstances instead of making it harder for these same people to commit mass murders? Just to be frank, since you apparently like being obtuse, no one is saying these or similar changes will stop violence, it just makes it harder to get a high score. How do you respond to that?

[BerenTebogo]

Foster a culture less in love with violence and force and pushing the blame of personal actions onto other people and inanimate objects. Greater focus on mental health. Complete overhaul of school and prison systems. Probably think of a few other things but saved by the... well company

So dreams and wishes and jazz hands then.

[Ksandra]

Foster a culture less in love with violence and force and pushing the blame of personal actions onto other people and inanimate objects. Greater focus on mental health. Complete overhaul of school and prison systems. Probably think of a few other things but saved by the... well company

So dreams and wishes and jazz hands then.

Only meaningful suggestion you have is overhaul of prison systems (not sure wtf schools are doing wrong since ya know, a lot of these mass shootings aren't coming from inner city school kids), and mental health reform. But those are a small part of it. I mean were ANY mass shooters previous longtime prisoners?


What's your solution to handle everything else in the meantime before it takes us 1000 years to get to that point. Because you know, I am sure those that were shot and will be shot inbetween would love to at least have a bandaid fix until then.

[Melena]

Only meaningful suggestion you have is overhaul of prison systems (not sure wtf schools are doing wrong since ya know, a lot of these mass shootings aren't coming from inner city school kids), and mental health reform. But those are a small part of it. I mean were ANY mass shooters previous longtime prisoners?


What's your solution to handle everything else in the meantime before it takes us 1000 years to get to that point. Because you know, I am sure those that were shot and will be shot inbetween would love to at least have a bandaid fix until then.

May not have a complete relation to our latest mass shootings, but plenty of teens/young adults who dropped out of school, run with gangs and shoot each other out on the streets. They are now looking at putting freeway cameras up on a local freeway due to the amount of drive by's they've had in the last few months. Improving the school system, getting less kids to drop out and join gangs will cut down on the amount of gun deaths every year.

[dasva]

So you'd rather shoot immediately for zero deaths in society due to similar circumstances instead of making it harder for these same people to commit mass murders? Just to be frank, since you apparently like being obtuse, no one is saying these or similar changes will stop violence, it just makes it harder to get a high score. How do you respond to that?

My response? That all of you are hilarious. Someone says this shit doesn't happen elsewhere and I say it does and all of a sudden the conversation gets twisted into something else about less lethality and how you can't stop people from murder and words get put in my mouth. Great job guys. Why don't you start arguing why tanks are bad too and say I'd love for everyone to have those. I'm sure you'd "win" that argument too. Please continue this vague anti-gun circle jerk without me

[Ghost_Wheel22]

But tanks are awesome why wouldn't you love for everyone to have those? You can find the quintessential Type 55 for as low as 45k! Nothing cuts through traffic like 36 tons of fucking tank plowing through at 30 mph.

[Ksandra]

May not have a complete relation to our latest mass shootings, but plenty of teens/young adults who dropped out of school, run with gangs and shoot each other out on the streets. They are now looking at putting freeway cameras up on a local freeway due to the amount of drive by's they've had in the last few months. Improving the school system, getting less kids to drop out and join gangs will cut down on the amount of gun deaths every year.

Gang culture is very different than mass shootings. And afaik we are kinda looking at reducing mass shootings in this conversation.
Let me tell you as a teacher in an area where most kids are at least 3rd generation gansters, you can't legislate while looking at both mass shootings and gangs. They are two very unique situations. Focus on reducing one with certain laws, and focus on the other with other laws.


I think the biggest hold back to fixing gun violence is trying to find laws that fix both these issues.

[Niiro]

But tanks are awesome why wouldn't you love for everyone to have those? You can find the quintessential Type 55 for as low as 45k! Nothing cuts through traffic like 36 tons of fucking tank plowing through at 30 mph.

But man, the mileage....

[archibaldcrane]

It ain't MPG, it's GPM.

[zoobernut]

Gang culture is very different than mass shootings. And afaik we are kinda looking at reducing mass shootings in this conversation.
Let me tell you as a teacher in an area where most kids are at least 3rd generation gansters, you can't legislate while looking at both mass shootings and gangs. They are two very unique situations. Focus on reducing one with certain laws, and focus on the other with other laws.


I think the biggest hold back to fixing gun violence is trying to find laws that fix both these issues.

There is so much truth to this. They really need to be treated as different issues with different solutions.

[Blubbartron]

There is so much truth to this. They really need to be treated as different issues with different solutions.

Do they? Because getting rid of 90% of the guns in America would kind of go a long way to fixing both.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

T55's get slightly better than 1 mpg. It's the M1 Abrams that sucks with an average of 0.6 mpg.

Want a fix for both issues? Ban semi-automatic pistols. Ban revolvers. Ban derringers. They are responsible for a vast majority of gun deaths. Pretty sure that'll fix it. And if it doesn't keep them banned.

[Melena]

Awesome, possible active shooter in my neighborhood at the Camp Parks Military training facility in Dublin.

[Niiro]

T55's get slightly better than 1 mpg. It's the M1 Abrams that sucks with an average of 0.6 mpg.

Want a fix for both issues? Ban semi-automatic pistols. Ban revolvers. Ban derringers. They are responsible for a vast majority of gun deaths. Pretty sure that'll fix it. And if it doesn't keep them banned.

Restricting all semi-automatic weapons always seemed like the best middle-ground solution on gun ownership tbh.

Not even restricting revolvers, it's hard to commit a mass shooting with 6 shots and a relatively long, cumbersome reload time (also harder to conceal). No such thing as extended magazines for a revolver and something tells me turning a bolt-action rifle into a semi-automatic isn't exactly a simple fix.

Meanwhile every practical civilian application for gun ownership is still available.

I mean it's legislative fan-fiction, but the point is that reasonable restrictions are a thing, we just don't wanna.

[Melena]

Gang culture is very different than mass shootings. And afaik we are kinda looking at reducing mass shootings in this conversation.
Let me tell you as a teacher in an area where most kids are at least 3rd generation gansters, you can't legislate while looking at both mass shootings and gangs. They are two very unique situations. Focus on reducing one with certain laws, and focus on the other with other laws.


I think the biggest hold back to fixing gun violence is trying to find laws that fix both these issues.

Actually you can. Getting kids out of gangs alone would be a huge reduction in gun violence. Mass shootings get all the headlines since it's a large amount in a short time, but there have been more deaths due to a pissed off gang banger getting his panties in a wad and killing 1-3 people at a time in the bay area compared to what happened in Orlando. And in 99% of those cases, it's a handgun, not a rifle doing the killing. But no one wants to talk about those cause who gives a shit about some ghetto minorities offing each other when we can stomp our feet and cry over a double digit shooting instead.

[archibaldcrane]

People focus on assault rifles because you can actually ban them. The Supreme Court has made it clear that you can't ban handguns (at least until the SC makeup changes again).

[zoobernut]

Do they? Because getting rid of 90% of the guns in America would kind of go a long way to fixing both.

Well it kinda goes with the whole issue of "ban guns and only criminals will have guns" I will have to look up the hard statistics on this but it seems like gang related violence is done with illegal guns while it seems like these mass shootings and non gang related gun violence is done with legally obtained guns. So yeah I think that each issue needs to be approached differently.