2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Blubbartron]

You call that vigilantism? Did you skim the part where he was trying to delay them till police showed and that if he wasn't armed he wouldn't have done it? God damn you are pants on head retarded sometimes.

Open a fucking dictionary.

Vigilante - a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

He very clearly did not have legal authority to try and stop a robbery. He put himself in a situation where deadly force may become necessary because he knew he had such force available to use, even though he had no authority to involve himself. I don't care if you like me or my opinions, but this isn't up for fucking debate. The definition is right there.

[Melena]

Obviously you know nothing. Heard of citizens arrest? God you are fucking dumb.

[Melena]

Going by what blubbatron thinks, loss prevention employees are also vigilantes.

[Callisto]

Article also says the DA and police department say the guy acted within his legal rights. I'm not clear on PA law, but that would indicate he did, under their legal system, have the authority.

PA law is fuzzy on explicitly allowing citizen's arrest from what I've seen, you can't do it for misdemeanors but you can for felonies based more on what courts have let pass before rather than what's on the lawbooks. But yeah, if the cops and prosecutors are saying he followed the law, then he probably followed the law.

[Blubbartron]

Awesome. Citizen's arrest is a thing, so vigilantism effectively does not exist in the U.S. Guess everyone should carry a gun and handcuffs on them everywhere they go - never know when you might need to arrest someone who commits a crime in your presence. Why even have cops when everyone is supposed to be a cop.

[Blubbartron]

Furthermore, I read "legal authority" as "state granted authority to enforce the law" as opposed to "legally within your rights to do it as a person." The mere concept of citizen's arrest basically renders any other definition of vigilantism non-existent.

[AidenCarby]

So guy robs store at gun point and makes threats, then gets clapped...and we should feel bad because?

[Melena]

Dear god, just when I think you can't be any more retarded, you have to prove me wrong. Please keep posting though, I need the laughter.

[Acevalefor]

everyone should carry a gun and handcuffs on them everywhere they go.

Doing this while actively looking for people that may or may not be committing a crime to accost would be closer to vigilante than: Guy is carrying a gun and happens to be in a location where a crime is happening and chooses to do something to stop it.

[Melena]

Thank you, a voice of reason.......... Blub is making it sound like this guy is fucking Batman.

[Moss]

Blubb's point is that if the guy hadn't done anything, the robbers would have escaped, and no one would have died. Shooting in self-defense is very different from a foolish attempt at playing hero.

He inserted himself into a situation that could only be resolved with the death of the robbers (or his own death if his trigger finger was slower). Whether you think people deserve to die for robbing a convenience store is a different issue.

[Moss]

fwiw, I don't think you can complain about getting killed after committing a robbery at gunpoint, but I strongly disagree with the shooter's actions. it's not average-joe-with-a-gun's job to stop a robbery. if he shot them while they had the owner at gunpoint then you can argue he was trying to save the owner, but that wasn't the case here as presented by the article

[Cliron]

http://pitchfork.com/news/52961-memb...urder-suicide/

Members of Brooklyn Band Yellow Dogs Killed in Murder-Suicide in East Williamsburg

The story has changed a lot since yesterday. It started with one member killing all the others because he was getting kicked from the band. Now its apparently a guy from another band...

Guys left Iran because of fears of their life and were granted Asylum here in the US, to wind up killed by a fellow Iranian with an illegally(not 100% on) obtained gun.


I saw some pics on the tabloids at a deli today; I was at their apartment a few weeks ago for a house party. I was smoking on the roof that those poor kids were shot and killed on. Crazy shit.

[Cliron]

Oh another shooting in NYC. This one for a jacket at an iceskating rink in midtown.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1513645

Bryant Park skating rink shooting suspect smiles as he's led out of Midtown police station
'F--k all you n-----s!' - Shooting suspect Corey Dunton spat profanity and racial slurs at a Daily News reporter as detectives escorted him from the station house. He was ordered held in protective custody without bail at his arraignment.

NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly said Monday that being thwarted in the attempted jacket theft was indeed what drove Dunton to fire on the crowded skating rink. “He says something to the effect of ‘I want your jacket,’ ” Kelly said, recounting what Dunton told Contreras. “The victim says no, but obviously more heated words may have been used.”
Dunton left the ice, but soon returned and spotted Contreras. Dunton cleared several skaters out of the way in front of him and squeezed off at least eight shots, Kelly said. Witnesses identified Dunton, a Bronx resident, as the gunman, Kelly said.

[Melena]

fwiw, I don't think you can complain about getting killed after committing a robbery at gunpoint, but I strongly disagree with the shooter's actions. it's not average-joe-with-a-gun's job to stop a robbery. if he shot them while they had the owner at gunpoint then you can argue he was trying to save the owner, but that wasn't the case here as presented by the article

So what your saying then is since he witnessed a robbery, which they knew he was a witness, whose to say even if he didn't say anything they wouldn't have pulled a gun on him. Bunch of what if's but Karma hit the idiots like a ton of bricks and got what they deserved. +1 to the citizen, would buy him a beer if I met him.

[Moss]

So what your saying then is since he witnessed a robbery, which they knew he was a witness, whose to say even if he didn't say anything they wouldn't have pulled a gun on him. Bunch of what if's but Karma hit the idiots like a ton of bricks and got what they deserved. +1 to the citizen, would buy him a beer if I met him.

Adams said the private citizen demanded that they stop and wait for police. He said when the robbers refused and pulled out their guns, the citizen shot them in self-defense.

"He needed to defend himself because if he would not have used force, he himself may have suffered the wrath of those two gun-toting robbers," said Adams.

As the article is written, he stopped them from leaving the store. It doesn't imply in any way that he might have been the next target of the robbery. If he felt that he was, he has every right to defend himself, but that's not the sense I'm getting from the report.

[Melena]

As the article is written, he stopped them from leaving the store. It doesn't imply in any way that he might have been the next target of the robbery. If he felt that he was, he has every right to defend himself, but that's not the sense I'm getting from the report.

Report said as i interpreted it he walked in the store, saw the robbery, told them to stop, dumbshit thug pointed gun at him, dumbshit thug got killed. Blub was going off saying how this guy was looking for trouble and it seems he walked into it, tried to delay them and when threatened unloaded on them.

[Moss]

From the article:

The two men were shot and killed by a private citizen while leaving the store

After extensively investigating the incident, police determined the private citizen, whose name has not been released, acted within the law when he tried to stop the two suspects from fleeing the convenience store.

Adams said the private citizen demanded that they stop and wait for police. He said when the robbers refused and pulled out their guns, the citizen shot them in self-defense.

So no, he didn't walk in mid-robbery and tell them to stop. He prevented them from fleeing the store. Shockingly, they didn't agree to stop and wait for police and instead pulled their guns on him. At this point, he was in his right to defend himself. The problem is he caused the confrontation in the first place.

[BaneTheBrawler]

it is well established now that even if you caused and escalated the confrontation, you can still defend yourself with lethal force. stupid, but well established.

[Blubbartron]

it is well established now that even if you caused and escalated the confrontation, you can still defend yourself with lethal force. stupid, but well established.

If you're trying to equate this guy to Zimmerman, they're worlds apart (assuming Zimmerman wasn't lying his ass off, which is always possible, but there's no evidence for or against that). This guy approached two men, gun drawn, demanding they stop. He essentially did arrest them (minus the handcuffs).

Zimmerman, supposedly, was just keeping an eye on Trayvon while waiting for the cops. That included following Trayvon as he ran away. Based on everything I know about that case, Trayvon was the initiator in the confrontation, which is why it was self defense. In this case, the random citizen was the initiator of the confrontation, and not being a law enforcement officer, I consider him a vigilante since only a fool would confront two armed men when he's by himself. I'm guessing the two robbers didn't even get a shot off before this "hero" gunned them down. He was completely prepared to end lives walking into the situation, and this is just my opinion, but I believe he was expecting to.