2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Niiro]

Only non-lethal we have in Boston is OC spray.

Speaking of, this could have neutralized the situation as well (or even more effectively) than a taser (taser pins can miss, get snagged in clothing, etc).

What was stopping the cop from... you know....backing out of the building to where a bunch of other cops were and dealing with him there? He was the only one in danger, he saw that all the guy had was some kitchen knives, he was obviously disturbed and deranged, cop had backup on the scene, there was no imperative to gun him down right then and there.

Back out the front door, other cops around with guns, one gives him a face full of pepper spray, 99% chance he drops the knives, 1% chance he was trained by the League of Shadows and still charges and the other officers shoot him anyway.

[Suvhater]

I'll direct the police to call you next time they need to get within 10 feet of a guy wielding knives to pepper spray him.

[Roranora]

That seems reasonable, I suppose its just a matter of not hearing this type of shit every day, let alone Deathcam via shooters PoV.

lol

[Blubbartron]

I'll direct the police to call you next time they need to get within 10 feet of a guy wielding knives to pepper spray him.

This and various other posts are an example of the problem I have with people who are so quick to defend cops' actions anytime and anywhere. "Guy wielding knives" is technically accurate, but inflammatory language in common parlance that doesn't really reflect what was going on. A man slowly walking while holding a knife, one arm hanging down, is not in an aggressive stance. It really sucks that the cop's left arm is blocking the view of the other guy's right arm. In one or two frames before the cop starts shooting, it looks like the guy is either holding the knife flat against his chest, or possibly blade against his own throat.

If he was indeed holding the knife to his own throat, would you guys still say this was a clean shoot? It's very difficult to say what he was doing with the arm that actually had a knife, other than say it wasn't hanging down like his left arm was.

[Roranora]

'tell me you didn't shoot him'

*silence*

I can only imagine the hysteria the friend soon went through before having to be cuffed and taken away.

[Blubbartron]

'tell me you didn't shoot him'

*silence*

I can only imagine the hysteria the friend soon went through before having to be cuffed and taken away.

That's exactly why the cops in the Louis video in the other thread lied through their teeth and propped the guy up even though he wasn't breathing/responsive. He probably could have been resuscitated at that time, but the cops were more concerned about appearance than rendering medical aid.

[Brill Weave]

This and various other posts are an example of the problem I have with people who are so quick to defend cops' actions anytime and anywhere. "Guy wielding knives" is technically accurate, but inflammatory language in common parlance that doesn't really reflect what was going on. A man slowly walking while holding a knife, one arm hanging down, is not in an aggressive stance. It really sucks that the cop's left arm is blocking the view of the other guy's right arm. In one or two frames before the cop starts shooting, it looks like the guy is either holding the knife flat against his chest, or possibly blade against his own throat.

If he was indeed holding the knife to his own throat, would you guys still say this was a clean shoot? It's very difficult to say what he was doing with the arm that actually had a knife, other than say it wasn't hanging down like his left arm was.

I can't comment on what something "might" have looked like. You're trying to turn it into a what if scenario. A cop is telling you, repeatedly, to drop the knife. You don't, and keep advancing on said cop, you're going to get tazed or shot. Period. As you should be. For all you know he could have had his arm extended pointing the knife blade first at the cop.

[Moss]

A deranged person approaching you with knives is a scary situation, I would probably put his ass down too

[Blubbartron]

I can't comment on what something "might" have looked like. You're trying to turn it into a what if scenario. A cop is telling you, repeatedly, to drop the knife. You don't, and keep advancing on said cop, you're going to get tazed or shot. Period. As you should be. For all you know he could have had his arm extended pointing the knife blade first at the cop.

Not listening to a cop's orders is not sufficient justification for gunning someone down. If he was pointing the knife at the cop and walking towards him, I would agree that is an act of aggression, but the evidence just isn't there. We can't see the person exactly as the cop saw him, because our view is obstructed. People are calling this a clean shoot when it's incredibly unclear what the guy with the knife was actually doing.

From what I could see, the guy with the knife didn't seem aggressive.

It honestly shocks me how easily everyone here kowtows to authority.

[Blubbartron]

A deranged person approaching you with knives is a scary situation, I would probably put his ass down too

I almost forgot, did anyone actually see multiple knives in the video? His left hand looks empty, and I find it hard to believe he's holding multiple knives in his right hand. Possible, but unlikely.

[BaneTheBrawler]

no, i didn't see another knife either, but honestly that doesn't really make a difference. one knife or two, the guy was still advancing on the officer with a weapon

[Niiro]

I can't speak for everyone but I'm not interested in whether or not it was a "clean shoot" or whatever, I fully understand that the cop had sufficient cause to shoot.

The issue I have with it was that it wasn't necessary, there were other ways he could have dealt with the situation that wouldn't have required him to gun the guy down.

Like I said before, why couldn't the officer simply back out of the house? We see he's standing in the doorway in the video, we hear him talking to other officers on the scene, he was hardly in a vulnerable position to necessitate the use of deadly force.

Back off, get support from the other officers, talk him down, mace him, de-escalate the situation.

[Meresgi]

Not listening to a cop's orders is not sufficient justification for gunning someone down. If he was pointing the knife at the cop and walking towards him, I would agree that is an act of aggression, but the evidence just isn't there. We can't see the person exactly as the cop saw him, because our view is obstructed. People are calling this a clean shoot when it's incredibly unclear what the guy with the knife was actually doing.

From what I could see, the guy with the knife didn't seem aggressive.

It honestly shocks me how easily everyone here kowtows to authority.

Not sure what video you're watching, but I just watched it and he's totally walking towards the cop with a knife. That's threatening. There is nothing else to say unless you wan't to go full blown autism superhero mode on it. He doesn't have to be POINTING the knife a the cop, or making slashing motions, or acting like a pirate and saying "yarr I gunna git yeee"...dude has a knife, cop tells him to drop it MULTIPLE times, he doesnt, he gets shot.

A man slowly walking while holding a knife, one arm hanging down, is not in an aggressive stance.

I find a dude in a random area, who has a knife by his side that I can see and starts walking towards me...it's fucking aggressive. Hell a guy with anything or just his fist balled up walking towards me out in the middle of nowhere is an aggressive action if I ask/tell him to back off and after multiple times he does not.

[Xno Kappa]

Looked like a clean suicide by cop to me. Fuck out my face with this "wasn't aggressive stance" shit.

[Meresgi]

Looked like a clean suicide by cop to me. Fuck out my face with this "wasn't aggressive stance" shit.

He didn't toggle on aggressive stance, so it wasn't legit! He wasn't pvp flagged!!

People harping on cops so much that even when they do something legit, people flip the fuck out. Yeah cops need to be watched, but when they actually preform a take down by the book don't turn around and bitch still..

[kuronosan]

I can't view the video.

[jmc]

I can't speak for everyone but I'm not interested in whether or not it was a "clean shoot" or whatever, I fully understand that the cop had sufficient cause to shoot.

The issue I have with it was that it wasn't necessary, there were other ways he could have dealt with the situation that wouldn't have required him to gun the guy down.

Like I said before, why couldn't the officer simply back out of the house? We see he's standing in the doorway in the video, we hear him talking to other officers on the scene, he was hardly in a vulnerable position to necessitate the use of deadly force.

Back off, get support from the other officers, talk him down, mace him, de-escalate the situation.

Well I do always agree with talking down a situation (verbal judo FTW), I've always learned that using OC spray on someone with a knife is a major no-no, esp in close quarter situations. Since most people start to just randomly swing at things, or put their hands up to their faces.

[Meresgi]

I can't view the video.

You can't view the liveleek one either? The youtube one was taken down but below it is a link.

[Blubbartron]

Yeah, anyone who thinks that video justifies shooting the guy isn't using their brain, or is a happy little coward that bows down to authority figures as if they're inerrant.

If you want more reasoning, consider the video linked in the other thread: http://abcnews.go.com/US/dash-cam-vi...ry?id=22660928

They had the dashcam footage from one car where the drivers actions were completely obscured by other cops. The prosecutors were prepared to put this guy away for years. Then another camera with a better angle reveals that the driver wasn't doing shit. Bottom line - if you don't have the whole story, then jumping to a conclusion one way or the other is retarded. If you think shooting someone in self defense is justified because the person is simply holding a weapon, then you're a psychopath. If you think cops are allowed to shoot people who don't comply with orders within 5 seconds, then you're a psychopath.

[Meresgi]

Yeah, anyone who thinks that video justifies shooting the guy isn't using their brain, or is a happy little coward that bows down to authority figures as if they're inerrant.
.

http://pinkie.ponychan.net/chan/file...9305147112.jpg


Otherwise this is some mighty fine autism sir. He was justified in his actions, you don't come at a cop with a knife. Go on, head out tonight and pick up a knife and start walking at a cop while brandishing it while saying "You have no right to shoot me!"

If you think shooting someone in self defense is justified because the person is simply holding a weapon, then you're a psychopath

If the guy is coming at you, yeah its justified. Doesn't get much more justified then that. I guess you could shout at him "HOLD ON FUCKER WE NEED TO SIT DOWN TO PEACE SUMMITS" as he gets closer and stabs you.