2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Blubbartron]

And from what I could see and hear, the guy was warned repeatedly to drop the knife, yet refused to do so repeatedly. You're basing your entire stance on the fact that you feel like the guy wasn't aggressive. Yet you've repeatedly admitted that you can't see what the guy is doing because it's obscured. This isn't kowtowing to authority. It's called being a rational thinking human being. You're trying so hard to find something, anything that you can use to say OMG THAT COP MURDERED THAT MAN IN COLD BLOOD. But in doing that you're basically ignoring everything that you can see.

To be blunt, your stance is fuck all retarded. Claiming someone doesn't look aggressive based on a completely obscured view of the arm that is holding the weapon is about as tin foil hat as you can get. Homey, you're approaching Plow levels here.

No, it's not based on mere feelings, it's based on the evidence that I can see. The woman noted that she felt he was a threat to himself, not others. The guy wasn't responding to requests to come out. He was clearly having some kind of issues, but at the time there was no one else in the house and as the cop discussed with the woman, he could not leave the house any other way. He was a danger to no one at the time. When the officer entered his home and pointed his gun at the guy, he was standing in what appeared to be his kitchen. When the guy saw this, he approached the officer, but maintained distance. The officer moved back a step, he moved forward a step. I would estimate that there was 6-8 feet of separation the entire time, possibly more.

I didn't see anything threatening, and I didn't hear anything threatening. I'll grant you that I can't see the arm with the knife, but neither can you. You're making an assumption that he was threatening the officer because the officer ordered him to drop the knife and then shot him. Cops make mistakes and abuse their power on a fairly regular basis, and assuming that it couldn't possibly be happening in this instance is irrational. I'm not assuming that he wasn't threatening the officer, just pointing out that anyone who thinks this is clear-cut is a dipshit.

[kuronosan]

No, it's not based on mere feelings, it's based on the evidence that I can see. The woman noted that she felt he was a threat to himself, not others. The guy wasn't responding to requests to come out. He was clearly having some kind of issues, but at the time there was no one else in the house and as the cop discussed with the woman, he could not leave the house any other way. He was a danger to no one at the time. When the officer entered his home and pointed his gun at the guy, he was standing in what appeared to be his kitchen. When the guy saw this, he approached the officer, but maintained distance. The officer moved back a step, he moved forward a step. I would estimate that there was 6-8 feet of separation the entire time, possibly more.

I didn't see anything threatening, and I didn't hear anything threatening. I'll grant you that I can't see the arm with the knife, but neither can you. You're making an assumption that he was threatening the officer because the officer ordered him to drop the knife and then shot him. Cops make mistakes and abuse their power on a fairly regular basis, and assuming that it couldn't possibly be happening in this instance is irrational. I'm not assuming that he wasn't threatening the officer, just pointing out that anyone who thinks this is clear-cut is a dipshit.

So the cop should have stayed still while someone approached him with a knife?

Look, this is pretty damn cut and paste here. The cop said "I will shoot you if you come closer" like 20-trillion times. If you're taking a logical leap and saying "Well for that to be true the cop should have stayed still then the guy would be getting closer lol" displays the most fundamental reason you use such flawed logic.

If you're approaching a cop and he is pointing a gun at you and he says "Hey, I'm going to shoot you if you don't stop" you think it's okay to keep approaching him because as a cop he shouldn't shoot you?

[Roranora]

Is Plow banned from this thread? (*'-');

[kuronosan]

Can you show me a frame in the video where you can plainly see the knife is pointed at the officer? Are you sure you're not just assuming that to be the case because it would immediately justify the cop's action?

Oh, so you think his hand was stretched out to give the officer a handshake?

[Day]

Jesus fuck. That firefighter video. So damn sad to see the effects of alcohol on people. Those 2 bystanders didn't move because they were mind fucked I think, they thought they were getting some police brutality captured and couldn't grasp the plot twist until it was too late. I almost want to say they added fuel to that fire, it was clear that officer was worried about what those 2 were doing the whole time.

[Brill Weave]

And again. You're basing your entire stance on the fact that you can't see his arm. As you just said cop takes a step back, knife guy takes a step towards him. It doesn't matter at all if the woman felt he wasn't a threat to others. The officer clearly felt threatened. As he should, he doesn't know this man. Something is obviously wrong if he's being called there in the first place.

A rational human being obeys a directive from a cop when they're holding a gun on you. Does non compliance mean he should be shot? No. But non compliance coupled with making steps towards the cop while wielding a weapon is a clear threat. 6 - 8 feet separation in a situation like that is almost nothing. The cop is one lunge away from getting stabbed. This was not an abuse of power. This was someone approaching a cop, with a weapon, after being told to drop it repeatedly in an already tense situation.

[Brill Weave]

Is Plow banned from this thread? (*'-');

Not that I know of.

[Blubbartron]

Oh, so you think his hand was stretched out to give the officer a handshake?

Show me a frame where you can plainly see what his right arm is doing. Seriously. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Xno Kappa]

Can you show me a frame in the video where you can plainly see the knife is pointed at the officer? Are you sure you're not just assuming that to be the case because it would immediately justify the cop's action?

He's holding a fucking knife and kept approaching the officer, end of story. The shit doesn't shoot full heart Zelda sparkles for him to need to point it at the cop.

[Jaybar]

THE GLOVE DOES NOT FIT!

[Mad Dog Ben Richards]

yeah xajii true strike. because i wasn't an idiot flying out of the car giving lip about how its just pot and any other dumb things that ppl do when the cops nail them. and no amount of crazy eyes take me to Bellevue Hospital instead of central booking crap will ever save you. all it does is make the police think your unstable and thus more defensive. I'm no fan of the police, but like i said your time to plead your case is in court. the whole "it's not my fault that it's not my fault attitude" that ppl have when dealing with police is just as big of a problem as the police who go on power trips.

[kuronosan]

Show me a frame where you can plainly see what his right arm is doing. Seriously. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Frame 1: Knife is clearly not visible in suspect's left hand. It's in his right when the officer says "Put the knife down, I will shoot you".

Frame 2: Suspect extends right hand towards officer, who says "Put the knife down! Put it down!"

Frame 3: Suspect appears to be looking at the knife in his hand, as the officer says "Put it down! Put it down!"

Frame 4: After the first shot, you can see he dropped the knife, which is pointing blade out. Which means he was holding the knife TOWARD the officer and not in a reverse (stabbing) grip. Clearly he was not trying to hand the knife to the officer, so it can be assumed to be very likely that he was approaching the officer with the knife faced in a lunging motion.

[Blubbartron]

And again. You're basing your entire stance on the fact that you can't see his arm. As you just said cop takes a step back, knife guy takes a step towards him. It doesn't matter at all if the woman felt he wasn't a threat to others. The officer clearly felt threatened. As he should, he doesn't know this man. Something is obviously wrong if he's being called there in the first place.

A rational human being obeys a directive from a cop when they're holding a gun on you. Does non compliance mean he should be shot? No. But non compliance coupled with making steps towards the cop while wielding a weapon is a clear threat. 6 - 8 feet separation in a situation like that is almost nothing. The cop is one lunge away from getting stabbed. This was not an abuse of power. This was someone approaching a cop, with a weapon, after being told to drop it repeatedly in an already tense situation.

He's holding a fucking knife and kept approaching the officer, end of story. The shit doesn't shoot full heart Zelda sparkles for him to need to point it at the cop.

To both of these I say that context matters. If he was holding the knife to his own throat, I don't give a shit if he approaches the officer. Reaction time is slow, but if someone is literally not in arms reach, you can't get to them before they can react and squeeze the trigger. If his gun had been holstered or lowered, that's a different story.

That said, I re-watched the middle portion of the video a few more times. Now I know why the whole situation rubs me the wrong way. The officer is handling the potential suicide normally for all of 30 seconds, and then he goes on a screaming "you will obey what I say" rampage. He escalated a situation that did not need escalated. I believe in the first few frames where he leans to get a view of the kitchen you can see the guy with the knife cutting his wrist/arms, and the cop responds to this by changing from "come on let's talk about this, you don't need to this" to "you will obey me BECAUSE I AM THE LAW." That's fucked. You can't talk a person down by pointing a gun at them and threatening them.

[kuronosan]

You're blind then. Gotcha.

[Blubbartron]

You're blind then. Gotcha.

I'll be honest, except for frame 4 you showed, I have a hard time saying there's a knife in those other frames. My eyes are pretty fucked, so maybe the reason I see the video differently is because I literally don't see as well as others. The frames are blurry/low-contrast, and my eyesight is legitimately bad, so I can't confirm or deny that your description is accurate. It's reasonable enough evidence for me to drop it, but still sucks because I can't clearly see what's going on with the knife.

[Brill Weave]

You guys are all killing me lol

[Lucavi]

Maximum trollage whenever the word "context" comes into play. Eat it up, boys.

[Melena]

I'll be honest, except for frame 4 you showed, I have a hard time saying there's a knife in those other frames. My eyes are pretty fucked, so maybe the reason I see the video differently is because I literally don't see as well as others. The frames are blurry/low-contrast, and my eyesight is legitimately bad, so I can't confirm or deny that your description is accurate. It's reasonable enough evidence for me to drop it, but still sucks because I can't clearly see what's going on with the knife.

You should really get your eyes checked then. Dear god, even Hellen Keller and people who don't eat cinnamon toast crunch can tell he's got a weapon in his hand.

[Blubbartron]

You should really get your eyes checked then. Dear god, even Hellen Keller and people who don't eat cinnamon toast crunch can tell he's got a weapon in his hand.

Even frames 2 and 3?... Frame 2 is so dark I can't even make out his right arm, and frame 3 is so blurry his right hand seems to blend into his shirt. If you guys say you see it and I don't, all I can do is believe you do see it.

It's been about 5-6 years since I had my coke bottle (exaggeration - it's bad, but not that bad) glasses updated.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Jesus fuck. That firefighter video. So damn sad to see the effects of alcohol on people. Those 2 bystanders didn't move because they were mind fucked I think, they thought they were getting some police brutality captured and couldn't grasp the plot twist until it was too late. I almost want to say they added fuel to that fire, it was clear that officer was worried about what those 2 were doing the whole time.

wait what? what video is this? i think i missed it