2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[AidenCarby]

Put this thread out of its misery, and just revive it when someone else gets themselves clapped.

[Meresgi]

Blubb, seriously, are you retarded or something. If anything he more eloquently stated that if you shut the fuck up, go through the proper channels and not be an defensive asshole right from the beginning, things will go fine. Hell, every time I have to go over to booking to fix a computer, I wonder how many sitting in the holding cells would be at home/work/friends place if they didn't act like a turd when pulled over.

And this is fucking true of EVERYTHING. Working in IT, if you're a total fucking cockbag to me as soon as I walk into the room, don't expect to get bumped to the top of my list of important things to do. It's all about how you treat people. Yeah it sucks you got pulled over and are now late for w/e it is you were driving to, it doesn't mean you can just go asshole-mode, especially when it's an authority figure. If you get your rocks off screaming down the barrista at starbucks for not putting enough foam on your latte don't think the cop is going to take the same attitude from you.

[Nephlite]

In theory this is nice, but in practice it isn't. This requires a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of proof. It's more than likely that going this route will fuck you rather than helpful no matter how in the right you are.

You're absolutely right, however, I would like to point out you don't see 90% of the complaints and settlements stemming from abuse of power situations from departments. Most are handled internally and quietly and disappear before the media has a chance to get a hold of them. Check any public record domain for any agency and you should see a compliance section outlining the number of complaints a department receives (includes lawsuits). While the specifics of the cases might not be published, if you see the breakdown in complaints, you'll see three main categories you should pay attention to: Sustained, Unfounded, Exonerated. Sustained complaints are ones where the officer was disciplined or the jurisdiction lost the suit. Larger agencies like NYPD of course will have a MUCH higher complaint rate since their officer ratio compared to my own jurisdiction is almost 3:1. You can see an example here of our department:

http://mpdc.dc.gov/node/570212

Attachment is a .pdf

Direct Link (Page 36 for the info)

http://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/fil.../2012_AR_1.pdf

301 total complaints for 2012. 58 sustained. 58 cases where an officer was disciplined, city lost a lawsuit, or officer lost a suit and was reprimanded/fired. A sustained case likely means there were 58 chances in 2012 where a person got paid for an officers actions. Guess who fronts the bills and settlement? There's enough ambulance chasers out there looking to destroy an agency that you'll find at least five who will do it for free and won't charge you if you lost. There's also investigations done by IAB that don't cost the complainant any money that are handled offline. If IAB sustains your case and says an officer was at fault, who's to say you can't file a lawsuit afterwards and still get paid?

I disagree with this, but not for the stupid non-reasons Blubbartron concocted.

I think this statement takes a concerning and misguided view of the idea of self-defense. I don't believe that a figure of authority should have any more or less right ot take appropriate action when their life is threatened than any individual. That has NOTHING to do with authority. That is about self-reservation. Equivalent force should account for everyone.

For example, if this were a civilian person trying to help a messed up kid in the head, and the kid starts approaching them with a knife, I'm not sure I see the problem with shooting him either. I mean, I wouldn't like it, and I think there are better ways of handling the situation, but at some point you have to look at this and reealize someone with clear mental issues is approaching another person with a knife. If that isn't self-defense, what is? Knives are fatal weapons by the word of the law in this case, so a gun would be equivalent force, wouldn't it?

On the other hand let's say this guy doesn't have a knife. He's messed in the head and approaching the cop/person. In that instance is it okay to shoot? Is it more okay for the cop just because he's a cop? Why?

Authority isn't about right to life or to defend one's life more readily and in less extreme situations. It's about being given the tools to enforce law. Nothing about wanting equal consideration of self-defense undermines authority. At all. Thankfully that has FUCK ALL to do with this case.

Ultimately I think you are on the right track and I have to agree with a lot of what is said. That being said, I wasn't speaking about the majority of situations. In general, when someone's resisting, you escalate your force to meet the resistance, in which this stems from almost 90% of encounters. A lot of times it comes from trying to cuff someone and they believe they're being unfairly detained or they don't think they should be arrested. Them slipping their hands away from you and continuing the situation eventually will escalate and most of the time when you go hands on with a subject, the only thing you care about is situation resolution. That's why cops will suddenly escalate for a instant to take someone down.

Example: I run you for warrants and you come back positive. You're NOT going to sit there and argue with me for hours about how you're a good person and how you simply cannot have a warrant for your arrest. The best thing to do is let me do my job which is arrest you and book you and get it sorted out later. It's NOT my fault you have a warrant (even if it's in error). I can't go to public records and find out if the warrant is legit or not, I can only go off the facts I have at the time of the incident. I'm required by law to let you know the charges you're facing, what the charge on the warrant is, and weather or not you are eligible for citation release or you're getting extradited or face arraignment that day or in the morning. It happens. But don't sit there and argue with me and make the situation bigger than what it needs to be. The fact of the matter is, you're going to go to jail one way or another. You resist? You're getting put down. Plain and simple.

There are very very few instances where a police officer will just jump in and attack you. The one where the guy gets the crap knocked out of him during the traffic stop (either this thread or another) is one incident that happened out of the several thousands of incidents that were taking place all over the country at that exact moment. And guess what? The guy didn't fight back, got charged, went to PRISON and guess what? Evidence (video) proved he didn't do shit, charges got dropped, officers likely getting fired, and he's getting PAID. What did he know? He knew if he escalated his resistance, he would have gotten hurt much worse or killed during that encounter. Yes, it sucks that he had to take a beating for it. And yes, it does seem like you're just cowering up and taking it. But he's alive and breathing because he did just that and probably saved his life. Now he's getting the justice he deserves.

[Callisto]

More Florida SYG fun: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/0...eriffs-deputy/

A Pensacola, FL court is set to decide on Friday whether 24-year-old Keenan Finkelstein is criminally liable for shooting a deputy sheriff in the leg in March of 2013. According to the Pensacola News-Journal, Finkelstein and his defense team are pinning their hopes on the controversial “Stand Your Ground” law.

On the night of March 20, 2013, Escambia County Sheriff’s Deputy Sgt. Shedrick Johnson and other police officers were searching on foot for a robbery suspect in the Scenic Hills area of Pensacola. A robbery victim told police that someone from a home located on the 8800 block of Burning Tree Road had stolen marijuana and a handgun from his residence.

Police converged on the home and saw Finkelstein — who was not the subject the police were searching for — emerge from the house’s garage. Sgt. Johnson said that he emerged from a hiding place behind a tree and identified himself as a sheriff’s deputy.

Finkelstein produced a gun and fired, striking Johnson in the leg.

Finkelstein’s attorney Brandon Moros is arguing along with his client that Johnson emerged from the shadows without identifying himself and that Finkelstein fired in self-defense. Moros contends that Finkelstein’s actions were justified under “Stand Your Ground.”

Witness testimony is expected to last through the day on Friday. Judge Terry Terrell will then decide whether to drop charges against Finkelstein or allow his case to proceed to a criminal trial.

So SYG versus a cop, difficulty: cop is black

[quannum]

So SYG versus a cop, difficulty: cop is black

my two opposing knee-jerk reactions are fighting it out, gimme a minute.

[jmc]

Case shouldn't even make it to trial, unless I don't understand they SYG law. Don't you need to prove or have a belief your life is in danger?

Anyone "coming out of the shadows" doesn't sound like a reason to shoot

[Acevalefor]

Case shouldn't even make it to trial, unless I don't understand they SYG law. Don't you need to prove or have a belief your life is in danger?

Anyone "coming out of the shadows" doesn't sound like a reason to shoot

There is a large block of information missing between "coming out of the bushes" and "Finkelstein produced a gun and fired". That missing information is what creates doubt on both parties. The officer claims he identified himself and was shot anyway. The suspect claims the officer made no such identification but does not give any other details before the point that he fired the gun. And, as far as I remember, you do not have to believe your life is in danger under the SYG guidelines. You can meet force with force if you are threatened.

[jmc]

Also noticed there is no reference to if the deputy was in a full uniform, or in plain clothes.

[Outlaw]

A Texas father fatally shot a 17-year-old boy he caught hiding in his 16-year-old daughter's bedroom early Thursday morning, deputies say.

The father was apparently alerted by the girl's younger brother around 2 a.m. after he saw two feet under her bed in their north Harris County home.

When the girl's dad confronted the teens, deputies say his daughter at first denied knowing who the boy was.

It was when the boy made a sudden move, as if to grab something, the 55-year-old man opened fire, shooting the boy once and killing him at the scene, said deputies.

Authorities say his daughter later told them she let the boy, who has not been publically identified, inside her bedroom.

Neighbors, who say the family recently moved in, were shocked by the tragedy.

"Oh my god! They just moved in here like a week ago. Literally a week ago," one neighbor told KHOU.

The neighbor described the family as extremely quiet, adding, "I never heard a peep out of them."

The girl's father was taken to a hospital after feeling sick. He's believed to suffer unrelated health problems, KHOU reported.

The shooting is being called an open and ongoing investigation by deputies who, as of Thursday evening, had not released the names of the victim or shooter.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1720867

........

[Qalbert]

Texas

.

[Waraji]

Red Shotgun Wedding.

[Moss]

good luck finding a date for prom

[Waraji]

Well considering she already had a dude in her bedroom since having moved there within a week, I would venture to say she won't have any problems.

[Tarage]

What kind of idiot hides under a bed but leaves his feet out?

[Meresgi]

What kind of idiot hides under a bed but leaves his feet out?

A tall one

[Tarage]

A tall one

More like a dead one. Stupid kid was stupid.

[Mad Dog Ben Richards]

Leyland Yee, Cali State Senator, major proponent of gun control. Busted by the FBI for running 2.5 mil in assault rifles for campaign contributions.

"It is extremely important that individuals in the state of California do not own assault weapons. I mean that is just so crystal clear, there is no debate, no discussion." - Leeland Yee - May 2012


you can't have em but not only can I have them I can sell them.... do what I say not what I do. its for your own good don't you know that? <megafartnoise>

[Ghost_Wheel22]

The DNC will probably crucify him quickly to avoid dragging this into deeper media coverage and potential midterm election taint. Feinstein better hope the FBI doesn't find direct connections from this to her. Wouldn't want the anti-gunnest of the anti-gunners in an anti-gun state removed and unravel decades of gun control.

[Callisto]

Surprised you didn't mention that he was also one of the main violent videogames = violent children crusaders

[archibaldcrane]

The DNC will probably crucify him quickly to avoid dragging this into deeper media coverage and potential midterm election taint. Feinstein better hope the FBI doesn't find direct connections from this to her. Wouldn't want the anti-gunnest of the anti-gunners in an anti-gun state removed and unravel decades of gun control.

He's a state senator - I doubt Feinstein or the Democratic National Committee are going to get too involved.