2013 America (and Friends!) Gun Violence Thread No Plows Allowed!

[Clash Perez]

Call it hindsight if you must, but I'd want to make sure it isn't someone up in the middle of the night. Maybe I just don't live in a shitty enough place to understand. I don't fear for my life on a daily basis.

It's negligence in my book.

[Delayed]

If you have a gun in your home then your family knows better than to sneak in at the middle of the night.
Shoot first ask questions later is how you protect your family when a break in happens. Anyone suggesting that he was or was not already awake as a relevant excuse for the Darwin awards in this matter obviously has never been a victim of a break in themselves.
It was the middle of the night, she knew better than to do what she was doing, and the father was doing his job. It's dark, and sleep time.
I am not suggesting she got what she deserved, but the haters in here need to open their closeted minds and see that at the time of the incident he was doing exactly what he needed to do in order to preserve the integrity of the family. The outcome sucks but it isn't his fault.

[Kohan]

Call it hindsight if you must, but I'd want to make sure it isn't someone up in the middle of the night. Maybe I just don't live in a shitty enough place to understand. I don't fear for my life on a daily basis.

It's negligence in my book.

Despite the preceding person's assurance, I've been held up at gunpoint multiple times, I've otherwise had my personal space violated, and I've—without a gun being involved—had my life threatened in close quarters, and I don't own a gun. I know how to use one, and I've shot a reasonable variety, like glocks and shotguns, but I don't have one of my own. Somehow, I'm still alive.

The notion of guns being necessary to protect one's space and ensure one's survival is nonsense, and the idea that being the victim of a break-in means you'll rush out and get one is equally nonsense. If you're trigger happy and paranoid, sure. You'll do that. You aren't a template to follow, though.

[Stumblingdrunk]

So the father was right in shooting his daughter in order to keep her safe. The gun crowd has gone full retard in this thread. They have also shown the absurdity that is the very notion that keeping a gun in your home increases the safety of your family members

[Helm]

I did have a chuckle because of the "myreality" name.

[myreality]

So the father was right in shooting his daughter in order to keep her safe. The gun crowd has gone full retard in this thread. They have also shown the absurdity that is the very notion that keeping a gun in your home increases the safety of your family members

You're making the claim the father knew beforehand that it was his daughter sneaking back in.

[Eticket]

OMG

It's ok man. Sometimes people miss the small details. Just keep at it.

[myreality]

Despite the preceding person's assurance, I've been held up at gunpoint multiple times, I've otherwise had my personal space violated, and I've—without a gun being involved—had my life threatened in close quarters, and I don't own a gun. I know how to use one, and I've shot a reasonable variety, like glocks and shotguns, but I don't have one of my own. Somehow, I'm still alive.

The notion of guns being necessary to protect one's space and ensure one's survival is nonsense, and the idea that being the victim of a break-in means you'll rush out and get one is equally nonsense. If you're trigger happy and paranoid, sure. You'll do that. You aren't a template to follow, though.

This is not protecting, this is submission. Glad your alright, but I would rather protect myself then having to constantly be a victim.

Of course I don't know the context of your scenarios.

[Tricen]

So instead of seeking safety, IE going into his daughters room, making sure she's safe and locking the door and calling the police, he goes and finds trouble himself. Has no one ever watched slasher flicks? "What's that noise? I should go investigate." Then the black guy dies.

[archibaldcrane]

Wow myreality is an idiot

[Zeb]

I've been held up at gunpoint multiple times

Going by 2012 statistics from http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...-crime/robbery

354520 robberies
41% of those used firearms.
=145353
313000000 people in the US in 2012
.04644% chance to be robbed at gunpoint once
.00216% chance a 2nd time....

Granted crime rate has been going down and in the preceding years it would be slightly higher chance, you should still look into playing the fucking lotto.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Step 1: Turn on lights
Step 2: don't shoot family

[Acevalefor]

Step 1: Turn on lights
Step 2: don't shoot family

Bane, that's just not logical. It is much better to grab the gun and open fire than risk giving away your position with reasonable thought and action. This is a fucking war zone and you're either with us or against us. We wont wait for an answer before we shoot though.

[Byrthnoth]

What I meant when I called him a paranoid son of a bitch was more in reference to Zeb's statistics.

1) What are the odds that you're going to get someone trying to rob your garage in the morning by opening your garage door?

2) Now what are the odds that one of your family members is attempting to reenter your house in the morning by opening your garage door?


Does the probability of #1 outweigh the probability of #2 to the extent that you'd risk shooting a family member in the stomach? If so, you either live in a third world ghetto (and somehow have a garage with a door), you don't care about your family members, or you're a paranoid son of a bitch (because there's no way that's the case).

[Stumblingdrunk]

You're making the claim the father knew beforehand that it was his daughter sneaking back in.

I am not making the claim that the father knew it was his daughter. I am making the claim that in his misguided attempt to play hero, he shot his daughter. It is not defending your family when what you actually do is shoot your child you are pretty dense

[Aksannyi]

Okay I'm not defending the guy but there's this thing called adrenaline and the fight-or-flight response and now I don't know about the rest of you but unless you've had training in intense situations where you're under heightened fear then chances are you can't even imagine how this guy rationalized his decision in the split second it took him to choose to pull the trigger.

When you're in a situation like that, where you think there's an intruder coming into your home, you aren't exactly sifting through every possible scenario in your mind. You have to make a quick choice. Would I have turned on the light? And made myself a target for a suspected intruder? No, probably not. Would I have called out that I had a gun? Maybe. I can't say as I've never been in that exact situation, just close. I did have someone break into my apartment about 15 years ago but I wasn't armed at the time, it was terrifying and one of the things that prompted me to purchase a gun in case it should happen again. I was very lucky the guy was just drunk and came into the wrong house and left without incident - aside from my broken lock - so yes, maybe I would yell out and ask the person to leave first before just shooting.

You're acting like in the heat of the moment he was sitting down going over all his options. That's not how it works when you're under that stress. Again, not exactly defending the guy because he probably should have at least asked who the person was and what they wanted, if they came toward him and actually threatened his person then he could shoot, no hesitation. But I can see where he might not have been rationalizing through everything when he was in fear for his family's safety.

Just my thoughts anyway. I like to consider myself a responsible gun owner, this guy probably did too. He made a mistake. It happens, he and his daughter are both lucky and people (not just the father) probably learned a valuable lesson about being trigger happy.

[notorious bum]

Fucking gun nuts like to act like they live in Iraq and have only 5 seconds to react when they suspect an intruder or their whole family is dead.

Keep living that fantasy life, filled with spoon-fed paranoia.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Okay I'm not defending the guy but there's this thing called adrenaline and the fight-or-flight response and now I don't know about the rest of you but unless you've had training in intense situations where you're under heightened fear then chances are you can't even imagine how this guy rationalized his decision in the split second it took him to choose to pull the trigger.

When you're in a situation like that, where you think there's an intruder coming into your home, you aren't exactly sifting through every possible scenario in your mind. You have to make a quick choice. Would I have turned on the light? And made myself a target for a suspected intruder? No, probably not. Would I have called out that I had a gun? Maybe. I can't say as I've never been in that exact situation, just close. I did have someone break into my apartment about 15 years ago but I wasn't armed at the time, it was terrifying and one of the things that prompted me to purchase a gun in case it should happen again. I was very lucky the guy was just drunk and came into the wrong house and left without incident - aside from my broken lock - so yes, maybe I would yell out and ask the person to leave first before just shooting.

You're acting like in the heat of the moment he was sitting down going over all his options. That's not how it works when you're under that stress. Again, not exactly defending the guy because he probably should have at least asked who the person was and what they wanted, if they came toward him and actually threatened his person then he could shoot, no hesitation. But I can see where he might not have been rationalizing through everything when he was in fear for his family's safety.

Just my thoughts anyway. I like to consider myself a responsible gun owner, this guy probably did too. He made a mistake. It happens, he and his daughter are both lucky and people (not just the father) probably learned a valuable lesson about being trigger happy.

What your post ignores is that you and your children were at less risk prior to you having purchased a firearm. The time your house was broken into ended without incident. You can not however make the assumption that had you been armed at the time it wouldn't have ended really badly for the intruder or yourself. There are plenty of stories that involve a gun owner having their gun used against them.

The most galling thing about certain reactions to this story is that they somehow miss the fact that the only threat that this man's family faced that morning was the man with the gun

[Delayed]

What your post ignores is that you and your children were at less risk prior to you having purchased a firearm. The time your house was broken into ended without incident. You can not however make the assumption that had you been armed at the time it wouldn't have ended really badly for the intruder or yourself. There are plenty of stories that involve a gun owner having their gun used against them.

The most galling thing about certain reactions to this story is that they somehow miss the fact that the only threat that this man's family faced that morning was the man with the gun

it sounds like you and everyone else saying that the gun is the reason the daughter got hurt and not the fact that she fucked up in the middle of the night returning home.
come back when you've been a victim and aren't a big fan of continuing to be one in your own home.

[Stumblingdrunk]

it sounds like you and everyone else saying that the gun is the reason the daughter got hurt and not the fact that she fucked up in the middle of the night returning home.
come back when you've been a victim and aren't a big fan of continuing to be one in your own home.

I'm sorry. It was incredibly stupid of me to make the assumption that since the daughter was shot that the gun had anything to do with it.