Worst FF Main Character ever

[Abandon]

Reading through that one link posted, and gotta say, it just makes me like Squall more:

Rinoa: I missed ya.
Squall: ..Why?

i hated him when i was younger, but he reminds me a lot of a lot of guys i know today. that line alone says it all for me

[ronin sparthos]

I think most people on the "hate Vaan train" (including myself), looked at it like this:
1. Is he promoted as the main character of the game by being the main thing on the box of the game or put in front of everybody else in SE's (shitty) PR elsewhere (like the 25 years art)?
2. Do we start the game with him?

Vaan gets a "yes" for both questions. Now the fact he turns out to not be the main character in the story (everybody including the haters, know this) yet was promoted for the game as such by SE, is exactly the reason people hate Vaan.

And yet Balthier wasn't a main character and stole the show because he was an interesting and likable character.

Vaan failed because outside of his dream to be a Sky Pirate which is only handled at the end of the game and later in a sequel we see nothing interesting out of him other than stupid questions that would be asked by a teenager, a mirror for Ashe to reflect upon in her own story arc and the occasional comic relief. Vaan failed to capture the audience because there was nothing to be captured and set on a stage with far more interesting characters - Ashe, Basch, Vayne, Cid, the Occuria, Balthier - he was lost in a story that had very little for him to do. It isn't a scenario unique to Vaan as both Penelo and Fran get a shameful amount of development time relative to the main story arc and both so both are relegated to sidekicks with Penelo being the sidekick of a sidekick. Ouch.

If Vaan had been interesting yet turned out to be in the same place as FFXII places him, the hate wouldn't be so strong but his character is flawed and is there for exposition and to remind the target audience (teens) that this game is for them.

On a random tangent: Why exactly did FFXII have a cast of all humans (in a game with numerous races) and one Viera is a question I'd love to ask the people who worked on it. Basch could have been a Bangaa or something.

[arus2001]

I personally ruled out titles before VII due to how little some of the earlier stories presented plot.

FF1 pretty much had none and you could make a party without a warrior anyway.
2 was a little better with plot, but still pretty bland.
Same with 3 (at least the DS version).
4 was a serious step up, but not surprising given the jump from NES to SNES. At the very least, Cecil foreshadows his change from DRK to PLD pretty well. I think the ball gets dropped a little on just what becoming a PLD really meant, though, aside from the crystal sword fucking up Zeromus.
5 regressed to NES plot with no real growth for Bartz.
6 tends to be the nostalgia winner in any FF debate, but I liked 4 more. Perhaps its biggest fault wasn't being able to decide WHO the main character is even though you could pick out a couple strong cases. I don't think I wound up caring for anyone beyond Celes and Locke, though.
7 is probably where a lot of people here started. And while it's nerd cool to hate on Cloud, we do learn about him and most of the fucked up shit he went through. If I had one complaint about him and 7 as a whole now, it's how AC basically portrayed the characters as DBZ-esque fighters. Just... no.
8 had its dragging moments and questionable plot points, but I get the feeling those who dislike Squall probably don't think like he does due to their own personality. Push past the SEED super soldier shit and the faux-emo exterior and you can see a sarcastic cynic with at least a sense to do the right thing. Sure, the quest changes him some, for reasons some of us can't grasp regarding Rinoa, but hey, stories don't write themselves.
9 can get a lot of potential flak from me, especially since I commented on Zidane being the worst. There's a lot of cliches running around in this one, nevermind the totally useless and annoying characters. I couldn't bring myself to care about Vivi or the BW plot, but I've also got a thing against feeble mages, nevermind emotionally unstable ones. Fuck riverdancing rats, and the soundtrack for that matter. And while Zidane does his best to be a wannabe Locke, we basically find out he's just Goku sent over by Garland for whatever purpose he totally forgot about and just goes all mopey useless, but wait, his love for Garnet will save him! Or something. Then Necron. WTF?!
10 is pretty much what I'd expect of a displacement tale. Take a kid good at sports, but not much else going on in his life, and slap him in an alternate universe on the brink of doom due to some cultural superpower. Boy meets girl, boy falls in love in girl, girl happens to want to save the world... so, why not? His biggest growth was ultimately finding there was more to life than blitzball or even hating his father. When we find out just want Sin is, we see he's grown to be self-sacrificing even though they're pretty much running in blind on how to stop the cycle. Tidus' main problem is probably we didn't see enough of his life before Spira to outwardly make a distinction. But 10 is also probably where I began acquiring my dislike for teens or younger constantly overpowering and outsmarting adults in games. Not surprising since I was 18 or so then.
11? Lulz spectator.
12 may have the "who's the real main?!" debate going, but Vaan didn't rub me like Zidane did. I'm sure the lacking tail helped. Stupid furries. The plot also tried to be deeper than 9, even though you could tell when the director shift pretty much happened and the tail end just kinda happened with no major build up. At the very least, I'd say Vaan was being groomed into being a better man/hero/sky pirate/whatever. Maybe I should play the DS game to see if his story is expanded on at all.
My take on 13 is, being on a board full of wannabe alphas, actually seeing a woman who's not some crying sissy is a total culture shock. Mind you, I feel 13 winds up having some of the same problems 7:AC did with the whole DBZ angle with her portrayal of ability, but that universe also goes deeper with time travel and shit. So I guess I can be a bit more lenient. Either way, a tough broad doesn't bug me, but I'd probably hit on Fang first. x.x

[Francisco]

12 may have the "who's the real main?!" debate going, but Vaan didn't rub me like Zidane did. I'm sure the lacking tail helped. Stupid furries. The plot also tried to be deeper than 9, even though you could tell when the director shift pretty much happened and the tail end just kinda happened with no major build up.

Is there any documentation on to when the switch occurred? I thought the climax atop Pharos was pretty well done, although it got a bit "wut?" when Cid mentioned Bahamut. After that, the ending just seemed abrupt. I remember playing and being a bit surprised I was suddenly at the end of the game.

[Niiro]

The CSs at the top of the Pharos are some of the best, Balthier confronting his father, Basch confronting his brother, Ashe confronting the decision about the nethicite (with Cid, Gabranth, and the Occuria-ghost of Rasler all actively trying to manipulate her).

Hate to beat a dead horse but Vaan's presence and dialogue was not only lame and unnecessary, but his actions didn't even make sense. Ashe decides to destroy the Sun Cryst as it's going all meltdown-ish and struggles to make her way towards it with the Sword of Kings (which destroys nethicite), Vaan is, for NO reason whatsoever other than to be in frame and act like he's involved and doing something, at her side making his was with the Treaty blade (which was made to carve shards off of the Sun Cryst, which is exactly what they weren't going to do).

Why was he there? What was he going to do with the treaty blade? These are some of the most important and epic scenes in the game and the fact that he's shoe-horned in so pointlessly just makes it all the more apparent how unnecessary his presence was as a character. Fran and Penelo kept their mouths shut and stayed in background because they weren't the major players in the events unfolding and that's what supporting characters are supposed to do.

[Abandon]

moar fran please

[Nephlite]

Vaan just seemed more along the lines of "Swept up in a tide" character than a protagonist. Kinda along for the ride with no real purpose as to why he's there or what part he played. The game focuses more on Ashe's struggle than anything and I feel his plot was overshadowed by bigger things and didn't have any potential. I forgot the type of story that is when you're looking at the story from an observers standpoint and it plays more of a support role than the role of "hero" or "protagonist". I felt like this playing FFIX where Zidane's role in the game wasn't clearly defined until the very end and even there, he was backlit by Garnet's story and just seemed to be along for the ride (maybe it's just me).

[ronin sparthos]

The CSs at the top of the Pharos are some of the best, Balthier confronting his father, Basch confronting his brother, Ashe confronting the decision about the nethicite (with Cid, Gabranth, and the Occuria-ghost of Rasler all actively trying to manipulate her).

Hate to beat a dead horse but Vaan's presence and dialogue was not only lame and unnecessary, but his actions didn't even make sense. Ashe decides to destroy the Sun Cryst as it's going all meltdown-ish and struggles to make her way towards it with the Sword of Kings (which destroys nethicite), Vaan is, for NO reason whatsoever other than to be in frame and act like he's involved and doing something, at her side making his was with the Treaty blade (which was made to carve shards off of the Sun Cryst, which is exactly what they weren't going to do).

Why was he there? What was he going to do with the treaty blade? These are some of the most important and epic scenes in the game and the fact that he's shoe-horned in so pointlessly just makes it all the more apparent how unnecessary his presence was as a character. Fran and Penelo kept their mouths shut and stayed in background because they weren't the major players in the events unfolding and that's what supporting characters are supposed to do.

Both the Sword of Kings and the Treaty Blade can cut Nethicite and thus destroy the Sun Cryst. Vaan would know this because he was present along with the rest of the party when the Occuria speak to Ashe at Giruvegan and make their motives clear.

The Occuria gave Raithwall and then Ashe the weapons as a symbol of a pact between their pantheon and the wielder. You cut your shards, you rule under their guidance and thus the cycle of the Occuria being the caretakers of the world continues. Dr. Cid sends the team to Giruvegan precisely because he knew that the Occuria would attempt to coax Ashe into becoming the instrument of their will by playing her emotions against the Empire.

When the Sun Cryst goes ballistic at the end of the Pharos scene Vaan and Ashe resolve to destroy the source of nethicite which is fitting considering their connection through the ghostly image of Lord Rasler and the death of Vaan's brother. They both know loss and it's because of the destructive power of the Sun Cryst standing before them. Ashe holds the Sword of Kings symbolic of the past and Vaan holds the Treaty Blade which is the sword of Ashe's potential future (as a Queen of Dalmasca) which is ultimately one free of Occurian design, to steal a quote from Dr. Cid.

Reddas ultimately takes the Sword of Kings and destroys the Sun Cryst, ending the era of Occurian meddling and leaving mankind to write its own history.

[Abandon]

Vaan just seemed more along the lines of "Swept up in a tide" character than a protagonist. Kinda along for the ride with no real purpose as to why he's there or what part he played. The game focuses more on Ashe's struggle than anything and I feel his plot was overshadowed by bigger things and didn't have any potential. I forgot the type of story that is when you're looking at the story from an observers standpoint and it plays more of a support role than the role of "hero" or "protagonist". I felt like this playing FFIX where Zidane's role in the game wasn't clearly defined until the very end and even there, he was backlit by Garnet's story and just seemed to be along for the ride (maybe it's just me).

i have to disagree with your FFIX statement, as it's clear pretty early on that there's something going on between Zidane and Kuja, even if he didn't know.

[Niiro]

The way they portray the two swords kind of makes things a bit fuzzy, they make a point of showing the Sword of King's ability to neutralize and destroy nethicicte while also introducing the Treaty Blade (it's handed to her by the occuria themselves and even by its very name it's a reference to a treaty with the gods) as a tool used to acquire nethicite. I don't think any mention is ever made that the treaty blade can destroy nethicite.

If the Treaty Blade is meant to represent Ashe's future without the Occuria meddling in human history then that's the sword that should have been used to destroy the Sun Cryst rather than using Sword of Kings which represented her ancestors who accepted the nethicite as gifts and used them to rule.

The game makes a point to portray the function of the blades as different, trying to look at the blades symbolically doesn't make much sense in that context.

[ronin sparthos]

Vaan just seemed more along the lines of "Swept up in a tide" character than a protagonist. Kinda along for the ride with no real purpose as to why he's there or what part he played. The game focuses more on Ashe's struggle than anything and I feel his plot was overshadowed by bigger things and didn't have any potential. I forgot the type of story that is when you're looking at the story from an observers standpoint and it plays more of a support role than the role of "hero" or "protagonist". I felt like this playing FFIX where Zidane's role in the game wasn't clearly defined until the very end and even there, he was backlit by Garnet's story and just seemed to be along for the ride (maybe it's just me).

FFXII lays out the reasons for Vaan being on the squad but they are ultimately too surface deep to be anything other than a minor nuisance. We're led to believe that he's going to have an issue with Basch since he believed him to have killed his brother then that gets squashed in the first hour, his connection to Ashe is little other than "omg did you see Cait Sith?" in a few cutscenes there to develop Ashe's character rather than his own, the game leaves no room for him to develop a relationship with Penelo because Penelo could have been replaced with stock photography, his dream to be a sky pirate isn't even fleshed out until Revenant Wings and ultimately he's our Luke Skywalker without a story arc to call his own.

It's clear Basch was supposed to be the playable main character as the story would have functioned with him in the role and all of the scenes where Vaan and Ashe speak could have easily been Basch instead. But that'd leave the player running around on a 36 year old character. That's like a fossil in Final Fantasy speak.

For crying out loud Golbez is supposed to be 30. Thirty! What the fuck. lol

[Esby]

Vaan did have his character story arc, but it was solved rather quickly - and for the better - because if it didn't he would have ended up as a proto-Hope (a character whining over a misunderstanding for the first half of the game) and we all saw how "loved" Hope was.

But that was exactly the point of his character: getting over his past grudges quickly so he could serve as a foil to Ashe, who was completely absorbed in her thirst for revenge and she would have remained that way if it wasn't for Vaan.
The best part is that Vaan didn't get over his issues thanks to magic or something equally stupid, but thanks to logical, solid arguments from Basch and Balthier and he rationally accepted them.

Both Ashe and the audience are led to believe that Vaan is an immature kid who is going to stay that way for the rest of the game, only for him to change his mindset within the first few hours and serving as a role model for the stuck-up princess.

He had a role to play in the story and he played it well. If you ask my opinion, that's more than most main characters in the series could say.

[Niiro]

Unfortunately Vaan was a fairly weak character in a game full of very compelling characters.

Balthier watching his father driven insane by the nethicite's power. Gabranth so consumed by his hate for Basch that he joins the empire that killed his family and conquered his home just to have revenge. Reddas unintentionally obliterating all of Nabudis with the stone's power and seeking to atone for it.

Vaan? "Nothing will bring my brother back". Thanks Vaan, I'm sure that's valuable insight for a woman responsible for liberating an entire nation, now that you've had your 12 year old's epiphany go back to dreaming about being a sky pirate when you're all growed up and let the adults talk.

Larsa had more to contribute and he was 12 (or however young, whatever). He spends the game trying to be his brother's conscience, yea, the guy that murdered their father and overthrew the senate. That's adversity, that's doing something admirable. Ashe has no shortage of compelling characters with deep and tragic stories, some trying to lead her astray and some down the right path. Next to them Vaan is of little consequence.

He provided some comic relief and on a few occasions gives the simpleton's/child's perspective among a group of intelligent adults. These qualities are fine for a supporting character but when the game insists on trying to make us care about him it fails. His weakness as a character isn't that terrible on its own, but the fact that he's thrust into the spotlight just makes it more apparent especially when he has less depth and motivation than so many guest characters/NPCs.

[miokomioko]

Every time Vaan opened his mouth could be responded to with "Shut up, Vaan. The adults are speaking."
At least Penelo and knew to just keep quiet... and everything Fran said had substantial meaning.

[ronin sparthos]

Fran's voice <3

[Charismatic]

Short and sweet but one of the most important scenes in the entire game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=lW8cXPNpFLA#t=285s

If not for it, I wouldn't like Vaan but because of its inclusion I do like him. I will never recognize him as the main character because he simply is not. (Its not even ambiguous, the main character is Ashe).

[Ratatapa]

Fran's voice <3

I'm watching a video for FFXII voices atm, and all of them annoys me to no end lol

[ronin sparthos]

I'm watching a video for FFXII voices atm, and all of them annoys me to no end lol

Considering the voicework in XII is among SEs best, I'd like to know what you think was better. lol

The 'bucket over head' thing does get kinda grating but between Cid, Balthier, Basch, Gabranth, Fran and even supporting characters like Ghis and Bergan were top notch.

[Charismatic]

XII Cid and Al-Cid... both were god-tier.

[Ratatapa]

Maybe hearing them while playing the game (and the emotion at the moment) would be different but watching this atm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s0szVTP5fk

And exept Penelo (which is less bad) I heard back noise when people talk and it feel strange