Square Enix Asks: What do you want in 2013?

**Salodin** · 2013-01-12 20:17

Originally Posted by Silenka

When SE changes the battle system, people bitch. No matter what they change it to, people bitch.

"Mashing X is boring and turn-based combat is stupid"

FF12 gets rid of both those things

Then, predictably,

"The game plays itself waah waah how come the battle system sucks so much?"

FF13 keeps active battle and introduces paradigms you have to change

"The game still plays itself, boo hoo hoo, I want to be more involved"

!)*$)(@#&$&#$

I'm sorry, but not being able to directly control my allies in battle was fucking retarded. Thankfully the game is on easy mode 24/7 so it wasn't a big deal, but whoever thought up the system needs to get taken to a dark alley behind SE HQ and sodomized repeatedly.

**miokomioko** · 2013-01-12 20:29

Your opinion on this matter couldn't possibly get any more incorrect.

**Deadgye** · 2013-01-12 20:53

Thirteen's battle system could have been great, but the flaws that existed were horrendous. "Hay guise, let's give monsters aoe and conal attacks and then not give the player freedom of movement." That bullshit, along with some other small problems, ruined what could have been a decent battle system and turned it into mediocre blah.

And twelve's battle system was just XI's base with some different stuff that ended up being about okay.

**DeathbySnoosnoo** · 2013-01-12 21:49

Originally Posted by Deadgye

And twelve's battle system was just XI's base with some different stuff that ended up being about okay.

see? someone agrees. and thats not a bad thing. I did play xi for like 6 years.

**Deadgye** · 2013-01-13 00:04

Disagreeing with it would be/is rather silly. They even reused a bunch of attack/battle animations. Balthier = Elvaan, Penelo = Mithra, etc.

**Charismatic** · 2013-01-13 01:18

Originally Posted by Deadgye

Disagreeing with it would be/is rather silly. They even reused a bunch of attack/battle animations. Balthier = Elvaan, Penelo = Mithra, etc.

So, what does that have to do with the battle systems being the same?
Please do go on, explain all of the ways that they were similar.

**Kaisha** · 2013-01-13 01:31

I just mostly miss the seamless battles in XII.

I feel like I'm back in the stone-age when random encounters + "generic battle stage/sliced section of current area" are hit up in a detailed 3d world with enough physical space for your party to adjust their positions and fight on the spot.

**Pirian** · 2013-01-13 02:03

Originally Posted by Kuishen

Obviously the ideal battle systems are Star Ocean/Tales for non-turn based and Legend of Dragoon/Legend of Legaia for turn-based.

This is the sole reason I keep buying SO games despite the lackluster stories. But I don't know why I keep buying FF games day 1 when I know that it's going to be lackluster

**Stache** · 2013-01-13 02:58

Kh3 ffv13
I didn't know tomb raider was SE

**Gokulo** · 2013-01-13 03:24

S-E is its publisher now and Crystal Dynamics is also S-E's subsidiary.

**Stache** · 2013-01-13 03:32

Cool, never played TR but I might now

**Deadgye** · 2013-01-13 11:38

Originally Posted by Charismatic

So, what does that have to do with the battle systems being the same?
Please do go on, explain all of the ways that they were similar.

You're getting your panties in a bunch screaming that the rectangle isn't a parallelogram because it's not a square.

I never said they were exactly the same. I said it had XI's base. There are also innumerable similarities between the systems. Summons are reminiscent of XI's summons, I personally think of solo smn in the level 20 avatar battles. Auto attack is auto attack. Gambits allow you to make the party like a ffxi party; your whm will cure you when you hit yellow hp or cast silena on you when you get silenced. etc.

You have to be pretty stubborn to not see the similarities. Just because there are plenty of differences doesn't mean they aren't similar.

**Elcura** · 2013-01-13 12:07

Originally Posted by Deadgye

your whm will cure you when you hit yellow hp or cast silena on you when you get silenced. etc.

Doesn't sound like any WHM I ever met.

**AoE** · 2013-01-13 12:25

Originally Posted by Deadgye

You have to be pretty stubborn to not see the similarities. Just because there are plenty of differences doesn't mean they aren't similar.

The thing I want to know is why would it be a negative for SE to borrow an idea from another one of their games and improve on it? As similar as they may be, I've never once thought "OH MAN IT FEELS JUST LIKE I'M PLAYING FFXI ALL OVER AGAIN JUST OFFLINE" like some people like to embellish. The closest feeling I would've got to that was maybe traversing through and often having to fight through the huge-assed maps in FF12. Also similar aggro properties that mobs have which made it easier for me to figure out why for example, I'd cast a spell and a ghost mob would come out of nowhere asking me in a not so nice way to stop making so much damned ruckus.

The gambit system being similar to FF11 is a huuuuuuuge stretch to prove a point because a lot of action-based combat systems use partner A.I. Only difference of this game and other games is that it gives you an extremely generous assortment of options to customize your A.I (once you actually get all the gambits *eyeroll*) as opposed to most game's partner A.Is being mostly off limits save for commands that probably won't work exactly the way you want them to.

Summons argument is kinda silly but it's not really a point I feel like arguing so I'll leave it alone.

Elcura you never played with me. PLD turned WHM made me a pretty on-point WHM in small parties. (Wasn't as good in alliances but I tried!)

**Silenka** · 2013-01-14 01:01

Oh man I dunno, when I hit that one zone full of mandies that look exactly the same as the ones in FFXI I couldn't help feeling like 12 was FFXI offline.

Gambits reminded me of macros, personally. You set up stuff pertaining to spells and enemies. No other FF besides those two have that type of system (through spellcast/advanced scripts you could do roughly the kind of thing gambits do too, the if/when stuff).

There were a lot of reasons the combat and world in XII felt like FFXI offline

I can honestly say that at least to me it did.

**Charismatic** · 2013-01-14 01:27

I didn't say anything about graphics or style. Talking purely about the actual battle system.

You know, the one where the only thing that was the same was that the game had auto-attack (though there were a couple of small similarities that essentially boiled down to nothing).
Try going back to XI without 3rd party apps and try to tell me that gambits are anything like macros. Gambits are basic AI scripts far more than they are macros, there's really no way around this... they are not similar.

You cast spells while moving in XII, you don't in XI.

There is not any equivalent to building TP in FFXII unless you want to count mist charges (which would be silly because they work completely different and are dependent upon MP). Let us not even try to minimalize this fact since TP gain/WS is a huge factor for well over half of the jobs in XI. Again, there is no equivalent to this in FFXII. Huge.

Let us also mention the fact that summons do NOT work the same way in FFXI and FFXII, in fact there's hardly any similarity between the systems. XI gives you full control over your summoned beast and the only thing it does automatically is attack targets that you have hate on. In XII the summon has its own set of gambits and it just follows them (putting IZJS aside).
The only similarity to XI it has is that the summon stays out. That already happened in FFX, not really anything specific to either of these titles or noteworthy.

XI had a job system where you played distinct roles (again, putting IZJS aside as it is not the original version) and in XII everyone could do everything which is a completely different dynamic. That's more akin to the original vision for FFXIV than anything close to FFXI and even then it doesn't quite fit.

I could keep going, things like quickenings (closest thing to WS the game has) and other systems definitely differentiate it from XI nearly as much as the other FF titles, enough that I question how anyone could think it is 'offline FFXI' on anything other than the surface for cosmetic things or "Oh hey, I just cast magic and aggro'd an elemental!"

**Ayn** · 2013-01-14 01:55

Originally Posted by AoE

I've never once thought "OH MAN IT FEELS JUST LIKE I'M PLAYING FFXI ALL OVER AGAIN JUST OFFLINE" like some people like to embellis

It's why I stopped playing XII for a bit, honestly: I got obsessed with farming weapons and realized "Wait.. I logged off XI to do this?". I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing (the game had a lot to do), but it was making me annoyed.

I really do like the amount of attention and detail they put into XII's lore. Did anyone ever bother reading the entries on monsters and other bits? They'd really thought it out. I guess my main qualm with XII is wondering how it would've been if it never had changed directors..

..I can also attest to AoE being a good WHM.

Then again when your name's "Ayn", you tend to get cured a lot.

**Kaslo** · 2013-01-14 10:27

It's ok, Xenoblade feels like a good FF XIV offline. But doesn't mean I don't think its awesome >.>

**Pikarya** · 2013-01-14 12:53

Originally Posted by Zealot

I would love to play FFXI offline.

At one point in early development they were planning on trying the whole PSO/D2 "offline" mode.

I forget which ancient interview it was. But one of the game designers mentions it while talking about why Beaucedine Glacier is designed the way it is.

**Myrrh_Quetz** · 2013-01-14 13:07

I couldn't play FFXI offline. Part of the reason I played for so long was because of trolling and making new friends.

It's something small but I'd love it if SE either made a special video game clip for Video games live or atleast allowed game footage.

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