FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Opening Movie Now Live! (01/07/2013)

[Gokulo]

What the fuck is going on here?

He said he thinks useless spells are generally fun, I asked why are they more fun than usefull spells. What relevance has your rant to anything?
Many people expressed they enjoy using useless spells, they are in for a rouch wakeup call because if SE doesn't fail with FFXIV once again (rofl), they'll never be able to use them. Ever.

You had too much mad with your cereal today or something.

[Rakisho]

You had too much mad with your cereal today or something.

Milk and sugar only. I must come off as way more mad than I actually am.

I am waiting for a a logical explanation to why useless niche spells are more fun than usefull spells though, I don't see it at all. If clicking another button is so fun just change the keybinds.

[Ksandra]

He said he thinks useless spells are generally fun, I asked why are they more fun than usefull spells.

Since when does generally fun = MORE fun than?

I guess I gotta read the 14 forums more often or something, it has just become the official forums 2.0 with this over-analyzing insanity.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't see why people are all up in arms over having too many unused options in their spell list. Oh no, it takes too long to scroll through! Better if they didn't exist! (These are the same kind of people who think that Marvel vs. Capcom 2 would be better if it had 10 characters instead of 56 because balance, as if having extra unwanted options is somehow bad.)

That being said, this entire line of argument is a colossal waste of time for Yoshida-era XIV in particular; given that spells and abilities are grudgingly meted out (ESPECIALLY compared to XI), the chances of an enormous list of useless abilities are remote.

[Rakisho]

Since when does generally fun = MORE fun than?

I guess I gotta read the 14 forums more often or something, it has just become the official forums 2.0 with this over-analyzing insanity.

It's my bad, I figured BG actually had good players discussing how to play the games most efficient, at least that's what I used to remember the FFXI part being about. Oh how those days seem to be long gone.

But you're definitely right, this forum is no better than any random MMORPGs official forum. Lesson learned.

[Cichy]

Like Spider Dan said, bottom line is they are limiting the amount of actions you can set so each spell/ability needs to be good. We already seen this with 1.0 vs 1.23+ so it's waste of time to argue about it. Sorry dudes, no stonega II for yooo

[Ksandra]

It's my bad, I figured BG actually had good players discussing how to play the games most efficient, at least that's what I used to remember the FFXI part being about. Oh how those days seem to be long gone.

I would say if you're standing around with nothing to do because you've done everything else you could possible do in regards to healing, banishing IS more efficient (even if it's insanely minor...but hey insanely minor improvements IS the epitome of FFXI).


But, really, your whole post is just one big as no one can imagine someone saying something is generally fun must mean are talking about efficiency.

[mightyg]

Also who could possibly want 10 effective spells when you could have 50 spells that basically do the same thing worse!

[Rakisho]

Also who could possibly want 10 effective spells when you could have 50 spells that basically do the same thing worse!

Didn't you read the thread? Those 40 other spells are fun to cast.

[Spider-Dan]

Also who could possibly want 10 effective spells when you could have 50 spells that basically do the same thing worse!

That makes it sound like you're arguing that there aren't enough effective spells, when in fact you're really arguing that your spell list is Just Too Big (and should really be 1/5th the size it is).

It is a grave problem, indeed.

[Kachiko]

What about spells that can be useful, depending on the situation. About to use a few ffxi examples (sorry in advance), but for instance Jailer of Love (at 75 cap, early on) we use to have blm/add party use tier 3 elemental nuke spells instead of tier 4 for mp management / overkill purposes.

Also for soloing as a blm, it was times when the mob had low health and you know a thunder 3 would kill it (or 2), so to conserve mp you would finish it off with that tier. All i'm saying is, it will be many situations where the most damaging spell (which is most useful spell in most situations) is not the most useful spell in that situation because of mp management or casting time or other factors.

I wouldn't mind a menu like ffxi where even if the spell isn't set I can use it if I want too or set a macro for it at least I guess.

Well, in the context of a FFXI type system, yes, those points make sense, but not compared to a current MMO system. I think most people's expectations are that we don't have those types of situations, in 2.0.

[Manako]

Yeah I'm so confused... back in the day I would do monk parties and I'd have to switch to a MND set to nuke the ghosts so we could be more efficient... I would say that banish is probably the most worthless spell but did have very limited situational use.

Then you look at flash, obviously a whm wouldn't need that so if we're talking about paring down spells that would be quick to go. But I liked using flash when the nin's shadow dropped or with really good PLD tanks once their flash wore. I also really liked the ~na spells because it made the game more tactical, at the begining of an exp session I would have to make sure my macros were set to the right spell based on what we were fighting -- and when I got erase it felt more special. That was probably the only time I used text commands /ma "poisona" <whoever> when we pulled something I didn't currently have a macro for.

So its like back then I found those mechanics interesting, it took skill to play the game because you had a lot of tools to play with and needed a fair amount of knowledge. But now for FFXIV its a more modern approach so I guess it makes sense there would be less options. To me it just feels like the difficulty is in placement, timing and having enough gear to reach cap, although I'll be excited to see how beta plays

[Rakisho]

Yeah I'm so confused... back in the day I would do monk parties and I'd have to switch to a MND set to nuke the ghosts so we could be more efficient... I would say that banish is probably the most worthless spell but did have very limited situational use.

Then you look at flash, obviously a whm wouldn't need that so if we're talking about paring down spells that would be quick to go. But I liked using flash when the nin's shadow dropped or with really good PLD tanks once their flash wore. I also really liked the ~na spells because it made the game more tactical, at the begining of an exp session I would have to make sure my macros were set to the right spell based on what we were fighting -- and when I got erase it felt more special. That was probably the only time I used text commands /ma "poisona" <whoever> when we pulled something I didn't currently have a macro for.

So its like back then I found those mechanics interesting, it took skill to play the game because you had a lot of tools to play with and needed a fair amount of knowledge. But now for FFXIV its a more modern approach so I guess it makes sense there would be less options. To me it just feels like the difficulty is in placement, timing and having enough gear to reach cap, although I'll be excited to see how beta plays

Not necesserily. Most games has several spells, very usefull but also very limited, such as WHM Flash in your example. WoW has several spells which are used on maybe 5% of the bosses, but those bosses would be impossible without it. As a warrior tank I had maybe 20-30 (been 2 years) on my skillbars, but out of those only 7-10ish was used frequently.

[Shade]

Nevermind just being useless, in FFXI they also cost you money. When I levelled BLM, I simply did not buy spells I knew I was never going to use if they were over like, 2k. Lv 1-75 you could easily drop a lot of coin on spells you would never use while levelling, let alone at cap. So I didn't. This was anathema to some, who had to Get Them All, regardless of whether they'd ever be used or not. I never understood it, though.

[hocus]

Well, in the context of a FFXI type system, yes, those points make sense, but not compared to a current MMO system. I think most people's expectations are that we don't have those types of situations, in 2.0.

Even in a current MMO system, its plenty of situations that come up which will make spells you don't normally use, more effective (not completely useless). Maybe not a lot in end game raiding but even in raiding its times where the most damaging spell is not needed at that time (just overkill for adds). Outside of End Game its plenty of times when a lower tier spell or lesser effective spells become useful, especially in PvP too.

I don't see the point in making spells not usable (or limiting it) just because it's not the most damaging spell in end game raiding.

[Lucavi]

Yeah, I love that they got rid of Cure II and Fire II. Cura and Fira were much better!

They didn't "get rid" of tiers in 1.0. They just made magic cost more MP as you increased in level (low level magic has nearly always increased in potency as you level up in FF, so that was not a new addition).

There was a potency cap in XI, though, wasn't there? You could only take a regular cure so high without Divine whatever.

[miokomioko]

Like Spider Dan said, bottom line is they are limiting the amount of actions you can set so each spell/ability needs to be good. We already seen this with 1.0 vs 1.23+ so it's waste of time to argue about it. Sorry dudes, no stonega II for yooo

I'm just hoping they expand significantly further on the traits system; slowly enhancing and augmenting your current arsenal as part of progression through levels and quests... then add the ability to toggle them.

For example, a high-end BLM quest could reward you with a single trait that gives Fire/Fira/Firaga a chance to inflict Burn.
Another example, a high-end BRD quest could reward you with a trait that adds HP regen to Paeon of War.

[mightyg]

There's no need for five versions of the same element, single target spell. If they want to add some variation in the elements, they should add different secondary effects or combo passives. Don't add a new spell, Fix the spell you have and update the spells visuals.

[Lucavi]

Like Spider Dan said, bottom line is they are limiting the amount of actions you can set so each spell/ability needs to be good. We already seen this with 1.0 vs 1.23+ so it's waste of time to argue about it. Sorry dudes, no stonega II for yooo

Spell literally had 2 uses: BCNM 40's and 40-cap ballista. Oh, but it was a god in 40-cap ballista!

Haha, thanks for the memory, Cichy.

[hocus]

Nevermind just being useless, in FFXI they also cost you money. When I levelled BLM, I simply did not buy spells I knew I was never going to use if they were over like, 2k. Lv 1-75 you could easily drop a lot of coin on spells you would never use while levelling, let alone at cap. So I didn't. This was anathema to some, who had to Get Them All, regardless of whether they'd ever be used or not. I never understood it, though.

Blm was my very first job and I started playing at release so I had a lot of experience on blm. I was one of those blms that had to get every single spell, also not knowing which spells would be most effective or not (not thinking or even knowing about endgame). I have to say though I used every single spell. Whether it was bcnms at very different level caps (30,40,50,60), tractoring a friend that died in a bad spot, party play (magic burst AM1's for example), endgame, solo at different levels, promy level cap, etc, they all got used. If all you did was endgame then that is probably why a lot of spells didn't get used for you.