FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Opening Movie Now Live! (01/07/2013)

[Rakisho]

I can't wait for new information to come out so you dicks can argue about something else for six pages.

Don't worry, we'll be sure to ask the cool kids on this forum who does little but say "this is retarded" "bad discussion" if they approve of it being discussed.

Why are you people even posting? Don't like what's being written, don't read it. If you comment on something you don't care about it's just sad.

[Spider-Dan]

You've come around to my point, but you've framed it in a way to look like you're still arguing. Why would you sort the spell list if it..... wasn't too big in the first place?

If you're seriously think that having to sort your list is a valid, reasonable complaint, and you think I'm agreeing with you on that point, I don't know what to tell you.

Why would I want to scroll through extra versions, or non-used spells, when I could just sort through a more concise and relevant list?

Hey, guess what? After you've sorted your list, you DON'T have to scroll through extra irrelevant versions of spells. Problem solved!

It seems that the foundation of your complaint is that re-sorting your list (ONLY as you are leveling up, mind you, which wasn't exactly common over XI's lifespan) is just too much of a hassle. This complaint screams of laziness and unwillingness to use the tools already built into the game. You might as well complain about an inability to instantly select a WS without scrolling through a list, and then say, "Well, if you have to use macros to immediately use a specific WS, then you admit the problem!"

[Enkidu]

Just give me a "HULK SMASH" button and I'll mash it for 10 years straight bro. No need for those stupid spells and skills, that shit just gets in the way of shinies.

[Lucavi]

It seems that the foundation of your complaint is that re-sorting your list (ONLY as you are leveling up, mind you, which wasn't exactly common over XI's lifespan) is just too much of a hassle. This complaint screams of laziness and unwillingness to use the tools already built into the game. You might as well complain about an inability to instantly select a WS without scrolling through a list, and then say, "Well, if you have to use macros to immediately use a specific WS, then you admit the problem!"

I don't want to speak for someone else, but a massive list of spells isn't needed if all spells that you have are worth it. Stonega II was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things. Deodorize was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things.

[Niiro]

You get 1 usable spell or skill every ~4 levels. There's no room for crap you don't need. I'd rather they take the time to design meaningful and useful spells and skills than flood us with half baked crap.

This discussion is inane even for the XIV section.

[Cichy]

Yeah I like it how it was post 1.23. Every spell had a added effect and all abilities were useful in some way.

[Jakson]

I don't want to speak for someone else, but a massive list of spells isn't needed if all spells that you have are worth it. Stonega II was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things. Deodorize was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things.

Man, how else were you supposed to get away from orcs in davoi

[Lucavi]

Man, how else were you supposed to get away from orcs in davoi

Kill them, and if XI actually had a decent drop system, you'd be getting some decent sellables from them at a regular clip, so you wouldn't need to sneak around them unless they were party-centric. Farm the fuck outta those bad boys! I ain't sneakin' around some city-sacking pig anyway!

[Ksandra]

All I'ma say is, I don't care about them getting rid of tier spells, because I remember playing a resto shaman during Vanilla WoW. And for those who don't know what that means:

It means not being able to see your screen at all because it was covered with tiers of healing/elemental/totem spells and yet having to somehow make sure you weren't standing in the fire.


I do get the whole animation thing, but I don't let it get to me, 'cause I'd rather it be unified with spell growth which means it can keep growing without having my macro list growing.

[Lucavi]

Psh, get a bigger monitor with a higher resolution. What, were you playing at 800 X 600?

Do you even upgrade, Ksan?! Psh, really!

<3

[Ksandra]

Psh, get a bigger monitor with a higher resolution. What, were you playing at 800 X 600?

Do you even upgrade, Ksan?! Psh, really!

<3

Vanilla WoW was like 8+ years ago! Fuck if I know how big my monitor was then!

[Lucavi]

Bwahahaha! Yes, I still remember just how freakin much of the screen the default UI took up back in 06; I'm sure it was worse in 04! Modded that shit ASAP.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't want to speak for someone else, but a massive list of spells isn't needed if all spells that you have are worth it. Stonega II was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things. Deodorize was not worth it, in the grand scheme of things.

Stonega II (and Aeroga III, and Blizzaga, and Waterga II, etc.) were simply stepping stones in the leveling path. They gave you something to cast after you get Stonega but before you get Blizzaga/Thundaga III.

At the end of the day, it truly doesn't matter how many unused spells sit offscreen. You sort your list to show the useful spells, and the number of useless spells that you no longer even see is completely irrelevant. The only serious way to reduce the scrolling (on a sorted list, which is the only thing that counts) is to reduce the number of useful spells. And I doubt anyone is obtuse enough to proclaim that too many useful spells is a Bad Thing.

[Kononeko]

I don't mind a smaller amount of spells, as long as there are a larger number of ways to augment them with abilities and combos. I mean Scholar was awesome in XI, you had options and could change stratagems on the fly. I didn't really like how BLM was the like playing a Showtime Rotisserie.

[miokomioko]

Spells/Abilities should "level up" to some degree through progression instead of being replaced and made obsolete (if you had to pick one or the other). That's about it.

[Xanthe]

Spells/Abilities should "level up" to some degree through progression instead of being replaced and made obsolete (if you had to pick one or the other). That's about it.

This already has happened to some extent with traits improving abilities in 1.0.

[Lucavi]

Spells/Abilities should "level up" to some degree through progression instead of being replaced and made obsolete (if you had to pick one or the other). That's about it.

Agreed. The only pro to the former system is the greater amount of visuals associated with the greater number of spells, but this, too, can be rectified by having your spells upgrade in size and scope as they upgrade in damage and effects.

[miokomioko]

This already has happened to some extent with traits improving abilities in 1.0.

I am very happy with the direction they're taking it so far. I just hope they continue to experiment with the traits and expand greatly on them. The 1.0 interface for abilities implied a very limited amount of growth for them after 50... and with luck, they've kept that part open-ended or to-be-developed in the redesign.

[Yoli]

How did multiple people here call Flash a useless whm spell? That's appalling.

Also how are you saying whm only had two spells? I had uses for Cure 1 (test range quickly to make sure I was in cast range and out of AOE range, without add-on), Cure 3 (Was good and MP efficient, and would almost never overheal), Cure 4 (I found the cast time difference between that and 5 did matter, rarely, and ended up using it a bit once I'd stacked enough -enmity gear), and Cure 5 (Obviously useful). Cure 2 was useful leveling, at least. The curagas were useful in larger events, and the highest tiered one wasn't always the best one to cast. Regen was useful for much of the game too (although with that spell, the lower tiers really did fall by the wayside).

For less blatantly tiered stuff I kept haste up, I'd flash as often as possible without drawing hate while xping (again, how are their people saying flash was a poor spell for whm? It was fantastic mitigation), I'd get to use erase on most of the mobs, and then I'd have one or two na's that got to be used per mob on several others (stona, poisona, silena, paralyna were all used a lot. Other ones saw play too). The bara spells were all quite useful as well. When just xping, even the enfeebles were useful if you went with a Bard and no Red Mage. Banish, while typically useless, was very useful in KRT parties which were pretty nice back in the day. Stoneskin was a pretty awesome spell for any situation with aoe's going on. Blink was less roundly awesome, but I wouldn't call it useless. It helped if you wanted to go solo things. Deodorize wasn't that used, but it made sense for completion. Sneak and Invis both got a ton of play. I could go on, but it's been too long and I don't have a spell list. People wouldn't bother reading either. But god, two spells?

XI was a very reactive game, as opposed to XIV and almost every other modern MMO. Almost everyone seems to like the newer games where you're not being reactive, and are tapping a key a second instead. I can appreciate that and I won't argue, since someone's preference can't be "wrong" to them. Moreover, there's no use arguing given the way games have headed. If you like faster games, more power too you. You're in luck. I'm just saying that XI did give you things to be doing. You just were stuck waiting for the right time to do them.

SE designed WHM to be incredibly boring with no DD potential in XI.

I don't see why the job needs dd potential to be exciting. I found whm quite exciting despite doing the least damage in most every parse. As far as XI went, it has a lot more reactive stuff than many other jobs with getting of the proper na's/erase/flashing/curing/keeping haste up/etc. The jobs with DD potential had abilities to use too, that were typically best maintained (or used at a proper time, or whatever) and they got to ws/skill chain (when people did the second). Anyways, I don't see how putting up damage numbers was any more or less exciting than responding to negative statuses and putting up +hp numbers on people.

[Hatedregret]

It sounds like some of you didn't enjoy your trip to 75 on your first character before TOAU. Hitting a level where you learn something shitty like Stonega II still gave you joy and the desire to talk with your group about setting up a SC to burst with it. Even if it was only once. It was not difficult in the slightest to reorganize your list. I would never expect these things to matter at endgame, but FFXI was far different then than just hitting 75 solo and swapping to the next toon or dungeon grinding. You had friends that you saw daily and worked shit out with. You want to try camping a Charybdis in todays standard? A two blm party in Gustav on lizards? Oh the rng needs that bow? Lets try. Now people would just say fuck off. My initial post, which I think may have started all this was about nostalgia and a version of XI that doesn't really exist anymore much less about XIV or endgame of any game.

I don't believe you need to always be doing something either. I don't want people to only be chi blasting whores or TH tools, but a reprieve to survey and plan during the battle over just spamming shit is preferred.
As Yoli talked about, doing other things as a choice instead of a need was nice too. I loved seeing a WHM count shadows and throw out a Flash. You could tell. Seeing a NA fly right as it hits from a coeurl etc.

TOAU, in my opinion only, really changed the game to optimal group optimal plan only. It was far better for xp but far less so for group interactions.