FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Opening Movie Now Live! (01/07/2013)

**hocus** · 2013-01-14 21:24

I think most of this "useless spells" talk is because of the focus of most modern MMOs. In today's age its just a rush to endgame, and once you there you do everything at that endgame level (or make a new toon and rush him to endgame). This turns into if the spell is not most effective in most endgame situations then its "useless" to most people.

In ffxi, I leveled blm as my first job (during na release), and every single spell got plenty of use for its time. Now if you leveled blm just for endgame purposes later on during the game's life, of course you didn't find a use for many of the spells because all the spells wasn't just for endgame. That goes with any other mage job in ffxi. With all the level capped events and sheer amount of time you spent at that level (in early ffxi) most spells were useful at times. Good example Yoli of a whm as well.

Now I understand this game is a modern MMO and there will be less emphasis on the leveling process and way more about endgame and i'm fine with that, I will adapt (no other choice). I also understand that it will be faster combat and less reactive, so it needs to be an emphasis on useful spells within endgame. I just think having spells that is useful for other things other than endgame (like ffxi had) would be nice and not hurt anyone (even if its a small use).

**Lucavi** · 2013-01-14 22:45

Other games have "utility" spells that aren't simply for end-game, with cooler applications than any "fluff" spells XI had. Slow Fall in WoW blows any flash or deodorize out of the water. Being able to fly above a TBC capital city, find an AFK enemy flying high above on their flying mount, cast slow fall on yourself and stack about 50 dots on them while in mid air, then seeing their corpse plummeting past you about 15 seconds later, was not only hilarious, but ingenius. WoW also had gadgets which essentially acted as "fluff" spells, such as rocket shoes that propelled you back, wrist-mounted net launchers to snare shit, even a freaking poultry gun that turned people or mobs into chickens. All of the "fluff" spells, however, had practical uses: the shoes acted as an escape method, and the net and chicken gun acted as forms of crowd control.

Its not that people had a problem with fluff in XI, its that you're calling the wrong things "fluff". You're calling an inferior spell that had essentially lost its function or purpose, fluff. Fire is not a "fluff" spell, simply because at 75 you have to find a different use for it because its all but useless on any and every mob your level or higher. Stonega II is not fluff at level 75: its useless. Stonega II does not effectively become "non-fluff" because you're in a 40-cap; it has simply regained a use.

With scaling spells, Fire becomes useful so long as there's either a mob weak to fire, there's something to magic burst it off of (or whatever equivalent combo system we'll have) or, hopefully, there will be interactive things to cast fire on, such a campfires at night, or interactive objects to clear, like trees or debris.

**Achitophel** · 2013-01-14 23:07

Originally Posted by Hatedregret

It sounds like some of you didn't enjoy your trip to 75 on your first character before TOAU. Hitting a level where you learn something shitty like Stonega II still gave you joy and the desire to talk with your group about setting up a SC to burst with it. Even if iwas only once. It was not difficult in the slightest to reorganize your list. I would never expect these things to matter at endgame, but FFXI was far different then than just hitting 75 solo and swapping to the next toon or dungeon grinding. You had friends that you saw daily and worked shit out with. You want to try camping a Charybdis in todays standard? A two blm party in Gustav on lizards? Oh the rng needs that bow? Lets try. Now people would just say fuck off. My initial post, which I think may have started all this was about nostalgia and a version of XI that doesn't really exist anymore much less about XIV or endgame of any game.

I don't believe you need to always be doing something either. I don't want people to only be chi blasting whores or TH tools, but a reprieve to survey and plan during the battle over just spamming shit is preferred.
As Yoli talked about, doing other things as a choice instead of a need was nice too. I loved seeing a WHM count shadows and throw out a Flash. You could tell. Seeing a NA fly right as it hits from a coeurl etc.

TOAU, in my opinion only, really changed the game to optimal group optimal plan only. It was far better for xp but far less so for group interactions.

I want to print this off and mail it to the Pope. I was to eat this post in a nice wrap. I want to use this post to cure diabetes.

It's really quite good.

**Evane** · 2013-01-15 01:21

Spoiler: show

**Gokulo** · 2013-01-15 02:10

Originally Posted by Evane

Spoiler: show

Approved!

**Hatedregret** · 2013-01-15 02:37

I already had to pee really bad before I clicked that. I may have leaked a bit.......

**Yoli** · 2013-01-15 06:32

Its not that people had a problem with fluff in XI, its that you're calling the wrong things "fluff". You're calling an inferior spell that had essentially lost its function or purpose, fluff. Fire is not a "fluff" spell, simply because at 75 you have to find a different use for it because its all but useless on any and every mob your level or higher. Stonega II is not fluff at level 75: its useless.

Two things. First, regarding tiers, second, regarding actual fluff.

First, were tiered spells that eventually got rendered useless really a problem in the context of a game where you spend a decent amount of time at the level bracket where it's useful? And, as I pointed to with cure, at least some important tiered spells didn't loose their function simply because more powerful versions came along. I guess, ideally, I'd half agree with you and say that things like protect/shell/fire should have been placed on a single spell that increases in power system, while anything that could benefit from allowing more user thought/input should remain on a tiered system (cure, curaga... I'm sorry for mostly coming up with whm examples. It's just that that and drg was all I really ever did). It's probably not too hard to set up a system like that, and it would make sense. But they obviously slacked in other areas of coding, so it isn't really surprising they just used a single tiered system rather than a mix.

Even if it got redone, I think there's at least /some/ merit to having a single way spells work in your game, rather than having a two-in-one system. And if you're only going to take one approach, I like the tiered one that allows user input on things where it matters, even if a few spells get rendered useless at 75 (or 65, or 55) in the process. I like that more than going the other way, and eliminating the sort of choices you got from having multiple versions of certain spells around. I mean, what's the drawback? If you're using a macro, there's no difference to you at all. If you're typing in a spell, the only difference is that you have to do /ma "fire IV" <t> instead of /ma "fire" <t>. Again, that's basically the same thing. If you're scrolling through the menu to select your spell then there's a difference.... but did people really do that frequently? I can only speak to myself, but I know I rarely did. Plus, as has been pointed out, going in this direction allows for a greater amount of increasingly shiny animations.

Second, as far as actual "fluff" spells like holy that never had any real function (other than possibly pulling, and adding a momentary sense of progression for unlocking them)... I have no problem with them being included, as long as they're not spammed. I was completely serious in my earlier post when I said I liked holy despite it's being pretty useless throughout the game. Everyone had some sort of junk abilities/spells anyways. I remember a good deal of terrible ninja weapon skills that didn't get used, but looked kind of neat, for a dd example. Is a game really better if it's streamlined and doesn't have these abilities? In terms of playing, if you just wanted to min/max your damage output, you'd use the same skills whether the poor one's were included or not. So what's the downside to including them other than tying up a tiny bit of extra memory? If you're going to ignore it either way, no one becomes unhappy by its inclusion. And if playing with it makes 1 person happy, then why not?

Only alternative I can see is to have a perfectly balanced game where you replace those skills with skills that are equally useful to the best in all situations, or at least in selective situations. The first approach kind of kills the player's sense of progression: it's odd to be using your level 1 WS at 75 and seeing the same return as if you had used your newly unlocked WS from your relic weapon. I'd argue that that's horrible design, actually. The second approach might work if it was well designed... I think they'd have trouble making a perfectly designed game where everything has it's place as "the best for X". There's a lot of reasons for that... in XI at least, many players frequently ended up simply avoiding areas X/Y/Z where the monsters used tougher attacks. I feel they'd still avoid those areas regardless of whether their blade: ei worked as well as blade: jin or not.

**Patriarch** · 2013-01-15 08:21

Originally Posted by Lucavi

That's... kind of the issue, here. XI was such a boring or routine game, combat-wise (for certain classes), when compared to other active MMOs that this is about the 4th person so far who has commented specifically on using low-class spells simply from boredom, ranging from inefficiency to downright uselessness.

Being that bored (whether from windows or otherwise) shouldn't be happening on a MMO, hence no use for those types of spells.

In terms of Holy, the change is simple: make the spell fucking useful, like its been in every other FF to date. Why it was not the light-based equivilant to flare is a mystery to me, aside from the notion that perhaps SE didn't want whms to be locked into casting a spell that takes upwards of 15 seconds to successfully finish. The solution to that is is also simple: either don't pidgeon-hole whms into doing nothing but casting the same 2 healing spells ad nauseum, change the cast time for spells as a whole (as other MMOs do), or incorporate either talents or traits that, when triggered, allow for the instant firing of certain spells (as other MMOs also do). As flare is effectively the same thing to blm as Pyroblast is to Pyromancer in Rift, aside from being non-elemental, a similar talent as hot streak, which allows for instant-casts of Pyroblast (on a percentage chance) when another, more commonly-used spell crits.

Point being, there's tons of ways to make useless (but core in the FF lore) spells not only useful but integrated into the class as a whole. Most of this stuff is already entirely feasible, based strictly on the alpha videos they've already released of combat.

Well said, but even then I wasn't "bored". I enjoyed the late night chat sessions/randomness with the LS camping kings late night. Someone pulls a spider and people just cast dumb shit on it, grav it and keep it alive for 20 minutes.

I fully realize that I am the minority here, but having those niche spells was fine with me. Banish was decent on skele's, and like some rdm "en-element" spells were nearly useless, they all had some use out there. Albeit, they might not get used as much as haste/tier4 nukes/cure/etc. It was just nice to have a spell list that long and have a couple spells that were oddballs. I'm all for the game being centered around productivity, and catering to the interested of the masses, but who is getting hurt by having a couple extra spells that are "niche". Like XI, make them tradeable, and not "learned". If you don't want them, don't buy them.

Originally Posted by Rakisho

PLEASE explain how useless spells are generally more fun than others, I seriously do not get this at all. Do you get butterflies in your stomach and giggle "hihihi I'm casting banish!" How the fuck is that more fun than casting what you're supposed to do?

Man are some of you in for a rough wakeup call.

Sounds like casual trash "HEY LET ME PLAY THE GAME HOW I WANT OK? STOP SAYING MY DPS/HEALING/SUPPORT SUCKS! I PAY THE SAME FEE!"

Casual comment made me chuckle

But hey, alot of people had more fun using those "niche" spells in a popular MMO. As compared to using the popular spells in a niche mmo.

hurhurhurhur

**Artifact** · 2013-01-15 09:01

Originally Posted by Yoli

Two things. First, regarding tiers, second, regarding actual fluff.

First, were tiered spells that eventually got rendered useless really a problem in the context of a game where you spend a decent amount of time at the level bracket where it's useful? And, as I pointed to with cure, at least some important tiered spells didn't loose their function simply because more powerful versions came along. I guess, ideally, I'd half agree with you and say that things like protect/shell/fire should have been placed on a single spell that increases in power system, while anything that could benefit from allowing more user thought/input should remain on a tiered system (cure, curaga... I'm sorry for mostly coming up with whm examples. It's just that that and drg was all I really ever did). It's probably not too hard to set up a system like that, and it would make sense. But they obviously slacked in other areas of coding, so it isn't really surprising they just used a single tiered system rather than a mix.

Even if it got redone, I think there's at least /some/ merit to having a single way spells work in your game, rather than having a two-in-one system. And if you're only going to take one approach, I like the tiered one that allows user input on things where it matters, even if a few spells get rendered useless at 75 (or 65, or 55) in the process. I like that more than going the other way, and eliminating the sort of choices you got from having multiple versions of certain spells around. I mean, what's the drawback? If you're using a macro, there's no difference to you at all. If you're typing in a spell, the only difference is that you have to do /ma "fire IV" <t> instead of /ma "fire" <t>. Again, that's basically the same thing. If you're scrolling through the menu to select your spell then there's a difference.... but did people really do that frequently? I can only speak to myself, but I know I rarely did. Plus, as has been pointed out, going in this direction allows for a greater amount of increasingly shiny animations.

Second, as far as actual "fluff" spells like holy that never had any real function (other than possibly pulling, and adding a momentary sense of progression for unlocking them)... I have no problem with them being included, as long as they're not spammed. I was completely serious in my earlier post when I said I liked holy despite it's being pretty useless throughout the game. Everyone had some sort of junk abilities/spells anyways. I remember a good deal of terrible ninja weapon skills that didn't get used, but looked kind of neat, for a dd example. Is a game really better if it's streamlined and doesn't have these abilities? In terms of playing, if you just wanted to min/max your damage output, you'd use the same skills whether the poor one's were included or not. So what's the downside to including them other than tying up a tiny bit of extra memory? If you're going to ignore it either way, no one becomes unhappy by its inclusion. And if playing with it makes 1 person happy, then why not?

Only alternative I can see is to have a perfectly balanced game where you replace those skills with skills that are equally useful to the best in all situations, or at least in selective situations. The first approach kind of kills the player's sense of progression: it's odd to be using your level 1 WS at 75 and seeing the same return as if you had used your newly unlocked WS from your relic weapon. I'd argue that that's horrible design, actually. The second approach might work if it was well designed... I think they'd have trouble making a perfectly designed game where everything has it's place as "the best for X". There's a lot of reasons for that... in XI at least, many players frequently ended up simply avoiding areas X/Y/Z where the monsters used tougher attacks. I feel they'd still avoid those areas regardless of whether their blade: ei worked as well as blade: jin or not.

I agree with you completely. I do not know if a "perfect" game could be created where a large amount of players do not avoid areas X/Y/Z in such a large "world." The only way it could include everything is by putting more selective quests and more HNM (yes, I said it unfortunately) to get people to want to travel to these areas. For example I would have never went to Boyada Tree if I wasn't going for Fafnir/Nidhogg or maybe...and I mean very rarely killing Aquarius. What is upsetting is that the Boyada Tree was one of the better designed places, at least for me.

As for Fluff spells...I was annoyed scrolling through my spells looking at all of the useless clutter. But, in XI the process to getting to 75 was more complicated... and way more complicated if you had somebody power level all of your jobs in XIV. At one point you were always using a new spell, action, or weapon skill. Even if it was useless, it still felt like an accomplishment. And at some point or another it could be used as a skillchain...or to stun a mob, etc... but mostly everyone wants to spam the highest damage. A level 1 weapon skill should be irrelevant at level 75, or maybe they can implement a system where as your character grows is "perfects" the weapon skill and becomes stronger. This may be a ridiculous thought, but in Call of Duty you can use the worst gun in the game but make it stronger by leveling it..... Maybe you can build a weapon skill as you level up. Example: If I used Tachi: Yukikaze 1,000 more times than Tachi: Gekko... why not be better with Yukikaze? Just a thought.

Somebody hit on the topic of Nostalgia. I agree completely. FFXI made you spend time... made you work for what you wanted... made you interact with a group of people. This was built through just partying up, statics, level cap missions, Beastmen seal and Kindred seal missions, and most of all end-game linkshells. I know it is a horrible mistake to compare FFXI to FFXIV.... but our linkshell in XIV was hard to really interact. Everyone had so many 50's... for whatever reason and missions only involved 8 people. Usually those 8 people were always on and to keep things consistent it was hard to let anybody else in unless somebody went on leave or took a break.

I'm hoping XIV can do the same. I play for the community. It is only fun to accomplish things and celebrate drops when you are doing it on a consistent basis with the same group of people. I believe I am speaking for more than myself.

**Raldo** · 2013-01-15 09:54

So guys, how 'bout those Ninja [Element]: Ichi spells? Always complete shit. Checkmate.

I'm not serious. I just think your discussion is silly, and felt like adding to it.

**Nadrojj** · 2013-01-15 10:44

Originally Posted by Raldo

So guys, how 'bout those Ninja [Element]: Ichi spells? Always complete shit. Checkmate.

I'm not serious. I just think your discussion is silly, and felt like adding to it.

They were made somewhat relevant in abyssea to proc! Other than that yes spamming the elemental wheel wasn't great, but people did say it helped your enmity.

I made a lame comment about new content for you dicks to argue over and then realized later that this is a forum; a discussion board and that's exactly what you guys are doing, discussing. So my apologies.

As far as the useless spells, I never really played much of a mage job in 11 so I can't really relate to the fluff spells, but I do remember hitting a level and being excited for a new weaponskill. I remember how lame it was on ninja with all those awesome looking elemental weaponskills that I never used unless I was out farming solo just to see what they looked like again. I mean damn remember how awesome Blade:Ku looked? I think they need to add the fluff in to appease people who are like my god I'm a god damn wizard and I only know how to cast 8 spells? Even if you aren't going to cast those other 8 fluff spells the thought that you could if you want to I believe is why we got them in the first place. I for one hope they flesh out magic a bit more in the game, and make weaponskills that are actually used. I was a career bow Ranger, and unless I was using heavy shot to skill chain I used sidewinder, over, and over, and over again. Yes Sidewinder was awesome, would I have liked something equally as cool? Yes, yes I would have.

To touch on the nostalgia point two posts above me, I too hope the game community is somewhat reminiscent of 11 like you mentioned. I think the fact they are going to incorporate alliances and alliance content will help to remedy that same nucleus of 8 people doing content while the fringe players in the shell try to get in on it. We had the same issue in our shell, 6-8 of us in one group with like 7 more fringe players, and because we all wanted to get content done we didn't get that many outsiders into what we were doing. The fringe players started to leave and then you are left with 6-8 people in your shell, someone can't make it you shout for the last spot. Opening up alliances I think will help remedy this.

**hocus** · 2013-01-15 10:56

Originally Posted by Lucavi

Other games have "utility" spells that aren't simply for end-game, with cooler applications than any "fluff" spells XI had. Slow Fall in WoW blows any flash or deodorize out of the water. Being able to fly above a TBC capital city, find an AFK enemy flying high above on their flying mount, cast slow fall on yourself and stack about 50 dots on them while in mid air, then seeing their corpse plummeting past you about 15 seconds later, was not only hilarious, but ingenius. WoW also had gadgets which essentially acted as "fluff" spells, such as rocket shoes that propelled you back, wrist-mounted net launchers to snare shit, even a freaking poultry gun that turned people or mobs into chickens. All of the "fluff" spells, however, had practical uses: the shoes acted as an escape method, and the net and chicken gun acted as forms of crowd control.

Its not that people had a problem with fluff in XI, its that you're calling the wrong things "fluff". You're calling an inferior spell that had essentially lost its function or purpose, fluff. Fire is not a "fluff" spell, simply because at 75 you have to find a different use for it because its all but useless on any and every mob your level or higher. Stonega II is not fluff at level 75: its useless. Stonega II does not effectively become "non-fluff" because you're in a 40-cap; it has simply regained a use.

With scaling spells, Fire becomes useful so long as there's either a mob weak to fire, there's something to magic burst it off of (or whatever equivalent combo system we'll have) or, hopefully, there will be interactive things to cast fire on, such a campfires at night, or interactive objects to clear, like trees or debris.

I'm not saying that those type of fluff spells can't be added because they most certainly can. I'm saying that tiers were actually useful early in the game's life and depending on your focus. FFXI was a game built around the leveling process and not just on endgame (early on). Most spells were actually useful for its time, at a time when you would be on a level for days if not weeks. What turned most spells to useless is later on in the games life when it was just a sprint to endgame and all the level capped content was removed (and it was your 5th + job so you no longer cared about the leveling process just endgame).

As far as tiers vs scaling spells go, I think both systems can coexist. Tiers give the player more control which is something I enjoy. What if I don't want to do 1500 damage (or max spell damage) and risk killing the mob with magic (which could mean consequences for magic kills) but I want to lower its hp enough so a single blow can kill it (meaning physical kill). A tiered fire would be perfect for this other than a scaling fire spell. What if I want to heal somebody just so they hp stay in the yellow (or 70%) because it has some positive effect on the battle to stay there, wouldn't a tiered cure be much more effective for this than a single scaling cure spell?

As far as preference goes, I would prefer tiered over scaling just for the sake of the leveling process and personal style. I don't want to be using the same spell (or ws) at level 10 as I am at level 50 (or 75) but of course I will have to accept whatever route it takes (probably scaling). I think the menu being too long is not substantial enough of an excuse to go against it.

**solracht** · 2013-01-15 11:00

Originally Posted by hocus

What if I don't want to do 1500 damage (or max spell damage) and risk killing the mob with magic (which could mean consequences for magic kills) but I want to lower its hp enough so a single blow can kill it (meaning physical kill). A tiered fire would be perfect for this other than a scaling fire spell. What if I want to heal somebody just so they hp stay in the yellow (or 70%) because it has some positive effect on the battle to stay there, wouldn't a tiered cure be much more effective for this than a single scaling cure spell?

The answer to this is adding more varied spells (fast low-healing cure, low-damage nuke with an added effect, etc). You don't really need tiers to keep control in the hands of the players.

**hocus** · 2013-01-15 11:26

Originally Posted by solracht

The answer to this is adding more varied spells (fast low-healing cure, low-damage nuke with an added effect, etc). You don't really need tiers to keep control in the hands of the players.

I never implied that it was "needed", just that tiers would actually be more effective than scaling spells or even more varied spells. More varied spells would help and could be a viable answer but tiers are a more effective answer for situations such as those. Basically saying that not all dungeons or boss fight have to be fought by keeping your hp full and knocking down all their hp, they could actually add variety to endgame events that could actually make tiers more effective than scaling spells (even varied ones).

**miokomioko** · 2013-01-15 11:32

Why would tiers be more effective if they share a cooldown (as they did in the past)?

**Waraji** · 2013-01-15 11:38

Why are you people still "discussing" this shit? Abilities, and Spells have been completely redone for ARR, and until we are able to see what the level 35 cap does for abilities, or we get an outright explanation from the Devs as to what the changes are, you people are just arguing to argue.

Start the shit storm then, at least you'll be justified in arguing in hope that the Devs will change something.

**Lucavi** · 2013-01-15 12:07

Originally Posted by Waraji

Why are you people still "discussing" this shit?

Because Brock Samson wasn't in here, combat knife in hand, bloodlust and rage in his eyes, to tell everyone to stop discussing shit. Now that he's here, we can move on.

You heard it, folks. Close up shop and lock the thread until SE gives us another 2-sentence snippet.

**Patriarch** · 2013-01-15 12:54

Originally Posted by Raldo

So guys, how 'bout those Ninja [Element]: Ichi spells? Always complete shit. Checkmate.

I'm not serious. I just think your discussion is silly, and felt like adding to it.

BCNM40!

Made millions spamming my ele wheel :D

**Rakisho** · 2013-01-15 13:10

Originally Posted by Artifact

I agree with you completely. I do not know if a "perfect" game could be created where a large amount of players do not avoid areas X/Y/Z in such a large "world." The only way it could include everything is by putting more selective quests and more HNM (yes, I said it unfortunately) to get people to want to travel to these areas. For example I would have never went to Boyada Tree if I wasn't going for Fafnir/Nidhogg or maybe...and I mean very rarely killing Aquarius. What is upsetting is that the Boyada Tree was one of the better designed places, at least for me.

As for Fluff spells...I was annoyed scrolling through my spells looking at all of the useless clutter. But, in XI the process to getting to 75 was more complicated... and way more complicated if you had somebody power level all of your jobs in XIV. At one point you were always using a new spell, action, or weapon skill. Even if it was useless, it still felt like an accomplishment. And at some point or another it could be used as a skillchain...or to stun a mob, etc... but mostly everyone wants to spam the highest damage. A level 1 weapon skill should be irrelevant at level 75, or maybe they can implement a system where as your character grows is "perfects" the weapon skill and becomes stronger. This may be a ridiculous thought, but in Call of Duty you can use the worst gun in the game but make it stronger by leveling it..... Maybe you can build a weapon skill as you level up. Example: If I used Tachi: Yukikaze 1,000 more times than Tachi: Gekko... why not be better with Yukikaze? Just a thought.

Somebody hit on the topic of Nostalgia. I agree completely. FFXI made you spend time... made you work for what you wanted... made you interact with a group of people. This was built through just partying up, statics, level cap missions, Beastmen seal and Kindred seal missions, and most of all end-game linkshells. I know it is a horrible mistake to compare FFXI to FFXIV.... but our linkshell in XIV was hard to really interact. Everyone had so many 50's... for whatever reason and missions only involved 8 people. Usually those 8 people were always on and to keep things consistent it was hard to let anybody else in unless somebody went on leave or took a break.

I'm hoping XIV can do the same. I play for the community. It is only fun to accomplish things and celebrate drops when you are doing it on a consistent basis with the same group of people. I believe I am speaking for more than myself.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but games are trying hard to cater (spelling?) everyone these days. FFXI took a good approach for me personally in that sense (altough not everyone has the time), don't got the time to invest? Don't do it.
I've browsed the official forums a few times, and there has been several threads where casuals more or less demand nothing in the game takes more than 30mins, and honestly, it makes me sad. WoW had some epic things during vanilla that took a lot of effort, but they took a turn in TBC and each expansion after. While FFXI was terrible in many aspects, the journey, as corny as that sounds, was great. You had to put effort into getting anything done. I fear we'll never see that again.

**Raldo** · 2013-01-15 13:23

Originally Posted by ffffffff

BCNM40!

Made millions spamming my ele wheel :D

Ichi. I am well aware that the Ni spell line was useful, but the elemental ichis were all trash. I loved spamming the wheel from time to time, but never ichi, so slow :[

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