FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Opening Movie Now Live! (01/07/2013)

[Grey Jorildyn]

It was a C+ convo at best!

[Rakisho]

It was a C+ convo at best!

I'd read it again though. But only once. B.

[Elcura]

Holy shit, I see your problem now.

This is more accurate. I really question Elcuras experience in endgame in other games than FFXI and FFXIV, or maybe he is just that shortsighted/ignorant?

Fuck discussing this with people who's probably only played FFXI and FFXIV endgame is retarded.

Did this somehow not become about FFXIV? You reference WoW but that has no bearing on the conversation at hand. Maybe you think this is about WoW or other MMOs but it isn't.

I would not use that statement for all MMOs or all games so easily (for XIV you bet your ass I would). It's true if the conditions are correct and that can be applied to anything, but the correct conditions are unrealistic. The point stands that anything can be done given enough time and patience.

[Rakisho]

Holy shit, I see your problem now.



Did this somehow not become about FFXIV? You reference WoW but that has no bearing on the conversation at hand. Maybe you think this is about WoW or other MMOs but it isn't.

I would not use that statement for all MMOs or all games so easily (for XIV you bet your ass I would). It's true if the conditions are correct and that can be applied to anything, but the correct conditions are unrealistic. The point stands that anything can be done given enough time and patience.

This discussion has never been about FFXIV only. Seriously, that you even think that is just retarded. It's been about world firsts in general, all MMORPGs.

I questioned what MMORPGs endgames you've been involved in, you have not replied. Makes me think I am right when I say FFXI and FFXIV. Which makes it hillarious that you even make statements like "with time and patience you can do anything", which is not true in the slightest. A bad guild might have enough luck with the RNG to make it if they try for a year, but there are many guilds/players out there who are simply not good enough, as sad as it sounds.

[Elcura]

This discussion has never been about FFXIV only. Seriously, that you even think that is just retarded. It's been about world firsts in general, all MMORPGs.

I questioned what MMORPGs endgames you've been involved in, you have not replied. Makes me think I am right when I say FFXI and FFXIV. Which makes it hillarious that you even make statements like "with time and patience you can do anything", which is not true in the slightest. A bad guild might have enough luck with the RNG to make it if they try for a year, but there are many guilds/players out there who are simply not good enough, as sad as it sounds.

If you want to go broad, let's go broad. All games are designed to be beaten, the only question is whether you can figure out how to beat it. Unless you're physically disabled (blind, deaf, no hands etc) or mentally handicapped so you can't actually play games in a real manner, given enough time and patience you can do anything.

After all, the product of trying again and again is experience, knowledge and memory. Any group can do any content if all members meet the conditions to do so. That is to say, if all members are patient and have enough time they can do whatever they want no matter their skill level. This includes times past a year if necessary, just in case you didn't get that.

And I don't spend all my free time playing MMO endgame as I do play offline games as well. I've played RO, EQ, Lineage 2, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV and TERA until endgame, though I'm not using personal experience for this. However, this principle can be applied to any game, including the most brutal and punishing (Super Meat Boy, IWTBTG, rhythm games, danmaku in general etc) are often only beaten with patience and time rather than skill.

[Rakisho]

Unless you're physically disabled (blind, deaf, no hands etc) or mentally handicapped so you can't actually play games in a real manner, given enough time and patience you can do anything.

This is your mistake. You're assuming most players do not play like they are mentally handicapped, which they do. IWBTG is not a good example, because it's mostly about memory with little (or none? Been a while since I played it) room for improvising. It would technicly be possible to play that game blind-folded (as I said I might be wrong here, been a while, but I know for sure 99% of it could, if you had memorized the movements to perfection. Obviously it will never happen, but still).

[Falisa]

Man this conversation seems stupid to me. World firsts in a highly competitive environment are a mix of skill and time. Even the developers of WoW say that the top 10 guilds of the game are a completely different world skill wise compared to the rest. But to say its solely skill would be incorrect. The only reason these guilds are able to get the world firsts are because they have the time to raid every single day, all day long. They almost brute force some kills from the amount of times they try it. Just because your guild does not get server first even, does not mean you are a worse player. It usually means you have a life outside of the game and you can only raid 3 days a week for a few hours at a time.

I honestly do not think FFXI or FFXIV hold the same kind of environment that the world first race that WoW has though.

[Elcura]

This is your mistake. You're assuming most players do not play like they are mentally handicapped, which they do. IWBTG is not a good example, because it's mostly about memory with little (or none? Been a while since I played it) room for improvising. It would technicly be possible to play that game blind-folded (as I said I might be wrong here, been a while, but I know for sure 99% of it could, if you had memorized the movements to perfection. Obviously it will never happen, but still).

That's just a matter of perception, because unless you are mentally handicapped, you aren't mentally handicapped. Stupidity means it only takes longer, at which point patience becomes a factor.

[Rakisho]

Man this conversation seems stupid to me. World firsts in a highly competitive environment are a mix of skill and time. Even the developers of WoW say that the top 10 guilds of the game are a completely different world skill wise compared to the rest. But to say its solely skill would be incorrect. The only reason these guilds are able to get the world firsts are because they have the time to raid every single day, all day long. They almost brute force some kills from the amount of times they try it. Just because your guild does not get server first even, does not mean you are a worse player. It usually means you have a life outside of the game and you can only raid 3 days a week for a few hours at a time.

I honestly do not think FFXI or FFXIV hold the same kind of environment that the world first race that WoW has though.

So you basically wrote what I've been saying for 2 pages now. Hey, I was in a top 10 (peak at 2nd world) guild for 5 years, but hating on me is the cool thing to do on this part of the forum, so who cares what I have to say.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Most of us probably don't care cuz we have lives now. As mentioned before the "world first" bug never existed in XI so in general this community has always placed very little emphasis on it because it was never recognized as "a thing you do".

So... where are you going with this exactly? I thought we decided to move on already.

[Rakisho]

Most of us probably don't care cuz we have lives now. As mentioned before the "world first" bug never existed in XI so in general this community has always placed very little emphasis on it because it was never recognized as "a thing you do".

So... where are you going with this exactly? I thought we decided to move on already.

Hardcore raiding is very easy to combine with university studies. :D The idea that the people in those guilds are fat nerds with acne is so old and wrong. Considering, as I wrote raiding top guild raiding = 1-2 weeks of heavy playing, then 3-6 months of playing less than the average casual (usually 2-4 hours a week). The quality of life does not suffer whatsoever.

Yup this discission should be over.

[Coyohma]

This discussion has never been about FFXIV only. Seriously, that you even think that is just retarded. It's been about world firsts in general, all MMORPGs.

I questioned what MMORPGs endgames you've been involved in, you have not replied. ...

If you're talking nonsense concerning XIV, how can anyone take you seriously with other games? Someone asked what your character's name was, and you give no answer. But then go after someone on what they've done. Brilliant.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I've played several MMOs to end game. I didn't find FFXIV "hard" but it wasn't the easiest thing on the planet as you seem to claim. Having not played it at all, as you just confirmed, leaves the strength of your argument quite lacking.

This is one of those situations where it's best to quit while you're ahead. You are in the FFXIV forum after all.

[Coyohma]

Written many times on this forum I never played FFXIV.

That certainly makes sense.

Did you consider, if you think the game was hard, maybe it was you who was bad?

I don't consider 1.0 "hard." However, I'm not foolish enough to make claims out of thin air as you have in this thread. I've actually played the game, been part of the initial push of clearing the game's content. What you said was so ludicrous that I had to respond.

[Grey Jorildyn]

This just in: One person agrees with this guy, establishes universal truth.

[Rakisho]

This just in: One person agrees with this guy, establishes universal truth.

I was just on my way to edit that, knew I worded that wrong. Was caught up on twitch watching sc2. Ment to say "now that you agree with me". I blame it on the language barrier.

[Cichy]

So what the fuck are you arguing about? You just confirmed my theory/opinion. Now that we've established that I am correct, let's leave it at that, ok?

You make an absurd statement and proceed to call everyone who didn't clear 1.0 endgame on first try a retard. Maybe 1.0 doesnt hold a candle to WoW difficulty but the fights were hell of a lot tougher than shit we've seen in XI

[Churchill]

Like I already said, link your lodestone or this is no different than an XI player saying it (XI) was harder than WoW while never having played it.

[Coyohma]

So what the fuck are you arguing about? You just confirmed my theory/opinion. Now that we've established that I am correct, let's leave it at that, ok?

You insinuated that "any half-decent guild should kill it on their first try." You then clarified it to mean "probably a few" attempts. Both thoughts are severe misrepresentations of the reality.

People on this forum who played other games too has explained good enough where the skill level on those encounters were, compared to other games.

If you were told things were that easy by people on this forum, it was likely casual XIV players who:

• Completed the content after strategies were divulged
• Didn't try or were unable to get near the skill ceiling (didn't sniff world firsts, or 170 DPS on Miser, or an 8 minute Nael (Hard))
• Have a warped sense of how good they are, and/or were looking to put down XIV

That's assuming these people even beat the content to begin with. Let alone in just a few attempts.

[Rakisho]

You insinuated that "any half-decent guild should kill it on their first try." You then clarified it to mean "probably a few" attempts. Both thoughts are severe misrepresentations of the reality.



If you were told things were that easy by people on this forum, it was likely casual XIV players who:

• Completed the content after strategies were divulged
• Didn't try or were unable to get near the skill ceiling (didn't sniff world firsts, or 170 DPS on Miser, or an 8 minute Nael (Hard))
• Have a warped sense of how good they are, and/or were looking to put down XIV

That's assuming these people even beat the content to begin with. Let alone in just a few attempts.

Holy fuck. Ok TO EVERYONE MY POST ABOUT "Any half decent guild would kill it on their first try" WAS ABOUT ODIN IN FFXI.

People seriously bragged about first kills in FFXIV 1.0? That's like bragging about killing Odin first. Any half-decent guild killed it on the first try.