Worst FF main villain

[Niiro]

Huh, wonder what I'm remembering then cause we do find out at some point in the game that Lucrecia is Sephiroth's biological mom, pretty sure.

I don't remember if they make direct mention of it or if it's simply heavily implied, I was just commenting that Sephiroth never makes mention of it.

edit: I'm almost certain Vincent makes mention of Lucrecia as his mother at some point, but I can't remember for sure

[Ratatapa]

When you save Vincent from his coffins he talks a bit about Lucrecia.

Also when you get the submarine there's a waterfall where you get Vincent limit 4, you also get a scene about Vincent and lucrecia

http://youtu.be/Y0ekc_XKgWM

[Eurell]

When you save Vincent from his coffins he talks a bit about Lucrecia.

Also when you get the submarine there's a waterfall where you get Vincent limit 4, you also get a scene about Vincent and lucrecia

http://youtu.be/Y0ekc_XKgWM

People are calling bullshit on Sephiroth knowing about her. We all know She is his real mother from in game stuff and your trips to the waterfall and everything. Seph does not know though.

[Esby]

The problem is the writers deliberately avoiding to have Sephiroth face the truth about Lucrecia and his origins as a simple human with Jenova cells just like every other SOLDIER, because they would write themselves into a corner.
Sephiroth isn't an idiot, but at the same time he has one hell of a god complex that he believes to be completely justified due to the misunderstanding about his origins.
If he were to acknowledge Lucrecia as his real mother his status as "FFVII's main villain" and by extension his entire character would be completely shattered.
This wouldn't be a problem per se, since FFVII had a way better villain in Hojo, but go tell that to the blind fanboys who believe FFVII is the best game ever because of Sephiroth.
Square had to choose between poor writing and inability to milk FFVII further - they chose the former.

[solracht]

The problem is the writers deliberately avoiding to have Sephiroth face the truth about Lucrecia and his origins as a simple human with Jenova cells just like every other SOLDIER,

Not that I disagree about the rest of your post (VII not being written that well and Hojo being a cool villain) but this is wrong. There's a pretty big difference between what they did with Sephiroth and the other SOLDIER members (within original FFVII anyway). It's hard to say what the books below Nibehlheim exactly said, but if the experiments were detailed at all, he would've read that he was injected with cells before being born and thus would know an actual human being gave birth to him. Either way, he still knew he was the result of the Jenova Project, which is what started his madness to begin with. I don't see why learning the details would've changed much.

Sephiroth isn't an idiot, but at the same time he has one hell of a god complex

You just described a lot of bad guys in the series.

[Ayn]

Lol shadow lord... My second would be Bart cause of the way they designed his second form, it looked like a painting if you looked at it from the front.

I know someone already discussed this, but after seeing the WoTG cutscenes, that guy straight Lu Bu'd the allied forces. I made my peace with that when I realized that the reason everyone was so damned scared of him is because he pretty much allied the previously fragmented beastmen and made them an army to be feared. He's like the guy that comes along and mobilizes all the fat kids, inept kids, and wheelchair children that were picked last (or not at all) for kickball, dodge ball, and whatever schoolyard hijinks and morphs them into a bunch of top tier NFL linemen.

That's why I personally couldn't vote for him. I've never played Crisis Core but saw his fight against the dude in red and there's no other villain in any of the games that could match how awesome that scene was and I'm sure the average fan would agree.

Crisis Core just makes Seph seem even more idiotic, which is painful, because before it does that, they portray him as a pretty damn cool guy.

Seriously, he's chilling out in the library, Zack asks him a simple question, he has a breakdown, then the next scene it's all Dies Irae.

Plus, I mean hell. His two best friends who were in SOLDIER were experimented on, they had abilities similar to his (if lesser), why the hell was he so surprised when he figured 'oh cool I'm just like them'.

..But I can't fully hate him because I accept Dissidia's personification of him, ultimately.

[Yugl]

Not that I disagree about the rest of your post (VII not being written that well and Hojo being a cool villain) but this is wrong. There's a pretty big difference between what they did with Sephiroth and the other SOLDIER members (within original FFVII anyway). It's hard to say what the books below Nibehlheim exactly said, but if the experiments were detailed at all, he would've read that he was injected with cells before being born and thus would know an actual human being gave birth to him.

The FFWiki says he believed he was a Cetra. This makes sense given that the members of the Jenova project didn't know they had found Jenova initially. They believed they escavated a Cetra. Since Jenova slaughtered the Cetra as humans sat by and watched (More like ran, but certainly not helping them), Sephiroth believing himself to be a Cetra (Capable of explaining cells) is different from believing he's human and that's the ultimate "No, he must never know" about this story.

[Dantrag]

Need a Best villain/main character thread as well at this point.

[Niiro]

The FFWiki says he believed he was a Cetra. This makes sense given that the members of the Jenova project didn't know they had found Jenova initially. They believed they escavated a Cetra. Since Jenova slaughtered the Cetra as humans sat by and watched (More like ran, but certainly not helping them), Sephiroth believing himself to be a Cetra (Capable of explaining cells) is different from believing he's human and that's the ultimate "No, he must never know" about this story.

Idk why people talk about Lucrecia being his birth mother as if it's at all important, he was what he was because of Jenova. A sentient mass of cells effecting his body and mind since before he was born that made him into the monster that he was. How is any of that negated by the fact that he was born from someone else? Why would he even care?

[Tyrath]

Probably because it didn't make him into a monster until he realized that he was born of an experiment? He believed Jenova to be a Cetra and thought himself to be the heir of the planet. That alone tells me that people give far too much credit to the Jenova cells. Jenova was weak and in a state of captivity. It was Sephiroth with power from the lifestream who influenced the cells, not the other way around.

[Null]

Need a Best villain/main character thread as well at this point.

Final Fantasy IX wins in both those departments.

[Xno Kappa]

Idk why people talk about Lucrecia being his birth mother as if it's at all important, he was what he was because of Jenova. A sentient mass of cells effecting his body and mind since before he was born that made him into the monster that he was. How is any of that negated by the fact that he was born from someone else? Why would he even care?

Because his descent into madness came from the confusion about his origins. His Jenova cells didn't magically activate his insanity one day out of boredom when he read a couple of books.

[Tyrath]

^ Exactly.

[Niiro]

Seph was a super strong sociopath his whole life, the Cetra/Jenova angle just gave him validation. He finds out they were experimenting on him and his "mother" for their own gain and combined with the belief that he was a superior race (he was different, just wrong about how). I mentioned before that whether Seph was controlling Jenova or vice versa is a moot point since Jenova is simply a virus that seeks to consume the life energy of planets, which is exactly what Seph wound up trying to do (and was only able to do because of Jenova's presence).

He went kill crazy because he found out he and Jenova were lab rats being used by Shinra his entire life, he was already "crazy" because he wasn't even human and had Jenova cells effecting his body and mind since he was a fetus.

By the time he gets thrown into the lifestream and finds out the truth about Jenova (it's all of a few days between him in the library and this) the fact that he was born from Lucrecia is even less relevant.

[Xno Kappa]

Holy shit people need to stop making things up. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest Jenova cells were ever influencing Sephiroth's actions before the Nibelheim incident. He's shown to be perfectly sane, was the premier SOLDIER, and regarded as a hero from the Shinra-Wutai Wars. He goes mad when he mistakenly believes his origin, and here's the importart part, is that of a product of Jenova which the documents he read in the mansion stated to be his mother, a Cetra, and rightful heir to the planet.

It was his single biggest motive which Cloud and party later learn was flat-out wrong, so how is bringing up Lucrecia and the truth to him not relevant?

[Niiro]

Cloud talks about him being cold and emotionless, as a demi-god in a human body used to kill people would wont to be. I don't think being an invincible human weapon your whole life sent to kill scores of people leads to normal behavioral development. Saying he was a normal guy before Nibleheim is a crock of shit.

He goes mad when he mistakenly believes his origin, yes, then he finds out his real origin, which doesn't change much (he's a superior being and seeks to dominate the planet). In all he only thinks he and Jenova are Cetra for lilke a week before he gets tossed into the lifestream and learns the truth.

He uses some similar rhetoric afterward (about them being the rightful owners of the planet) but he never makes any mention of the Cetra or or any of that bullshit after the Nibleheim incident, he accepts Jenova as his creator and decides to follow through with her original intent. He knows he's not an ancient (he makes a point to find and kill the last actual ancient ffs) and then proceeds to try and destroy the planet and harvest it's energy. He knows he's not a goddamn Cetra and he doesn't give a shit, why would he care if he was born of a human woman when it was Jenova that made him into everything that he was.

What are you talking about in reference to AC? He says verbatim that he wants to use the planet's energy and travel the universe looking for new planets, which is exactly what Jenova does.

[Tyrath]

How was he not human? Jenova cells were used on him to improve his abilities like most soldiers, only his went beyond everyone else. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he was crazy due to the influence of the Jenova virus. Like said above this post, he went crazy because of his mistaken understanding of what Jenova was and thinking that he himself was a Cetra.

And I don't know where you get your understand of Jenova, but its flat out wrong. Jenova IS NOT just a virus. Jenova is an alien life form who does have a form of her own. She does use her cells to impersonate and control people. But in the modern era, when she was found locked up and used by Shinra, she didn't have the power to influence people. It DOES matter who was controlling who, and it was Sephiroth doing it with the powers he gained from the lifestream.

Ilfana refers to Jenova giving people "the virus" because she infected Cetra with Jenova cells and turned them into monsters.

And bullshit. He doesn't know hes not an ancient. The whole basis for claiming that hes the heir to the planet is because he thinks hes an ancient. And he only kills Aeris because he knows she can stop his plan. The whole point was Holy can stop Meteor and Aeris is the wielder of Holy. He doesn't kill her just because "shes the last ancient."

Anything he says in AC can't be used to validate what he knows or doesn't know during the game. I'm talking just as far as the game. Many liberties are taken with the story and what fans know to add in shit in AC.

Sephiroths original goal of merging with the planet to become god IS NOT the same as his AC goal and Jenova's goal of destroying a planet and consuming its resources and moving on. In FF7 he wasn't going to destroy the planet. He was going to wound it so he could become one with it.

[Eurell]

Cloud talks about him being cold and emotionless, as a demi-god in a human body used to kill people would wont to be. I don't think being an invincible human weapon your whole life sent to kill scores of people leads to normal behavioral development. Saying he was a normal guy before Nibleheim is a crock of shit.

Just wanna point out that Cloud didn't really know him. He thought he did because he thought he was Zack, but anything he says about Sephiroth is just him combining what he has heard with his one mission he went on him with, which ended when Sephiroth went batshit crazy and burning the town down.

Theres really nothing else in the game about Sephiroth pre-Nibelheim, so if we wanna look at that period of his life, we have to look at crisis core. And in that game, he was anything but psychotic. He was actually a p. cool guy wanting to hang out with his buddies and shit.

[Silenka]

This is why we need a remake of FF7 translated by more than one guy, preferably not overworked and not underpaid.
Seriously the translations of FF games up until 10 were fucking terrible. 8 and 9 were passable I guess, but still kind of confusing at times. I think the translation is largely to blame for some of the confusion around 7 for NA/EU fans. (Also playing a remake would be a solid refresher for everyone XD)

[Niiro]

How was he not human? Jenova cells were used on him to improve his abilities like most soldiers, only his went beyond everyone else. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he was crazy due to the influence of the Jenova virus. Like said above this post, he went crazy because of his mistaken understanding of what Jenova was and thinking that he himself was a Cetra.

And I don't know where you get your understand of Jenova, but its flat out wrong. Jenova IS NOT just a virus. Jenova is an alien life form who does have a form of her own. She does use her cells to impersonate and control people. But in the modern era, when she was found locked up and used by Shinra, she didn't have the power to influence people. It DOES matter who was controlling who, and it was Sephiroth doing it with the powers he gained from the lifestream.

Ilfana refers to Jenova giving people "the virus" because she infected Cetra with Jenova cells and turned them into monsters.

And bullshit. He doesn't know hes not an ancient. The whole basis for claiming that hes the heir to the planet is because he thinks hes an ancient. And he only kills Aeris because he knows she can stop his plan. The whole point was Holy can stop Meteor and Aeris is the wielder of Holy. He doesn't kill her just because "shes the last ancient."

Anything he says in AC can't be used to validate what he knows or doesn't know during the game. I'm talking just as far as the game. Many liberties are taken with the story and what fans know to add in shit in AC.

Sephiroths original goal of merging with the planet to become god IS NOT the same as his AC goal and Jenova's goal of destroying a planet and consuming its resources and moving on. In FF7 he wasn't going to destroy the planet. He was going to wound it so he could become one with it.

He was the only person to successfully merge with Jenova when the cells were injected in utero. The soldiers with Jenova cells injected into them got stronger but they weren't anything close to what Sephiroth was, they were humans with Jenova cells in them, not a human-Jenova hybrid (which was the point of Hojo's project).

How could you say that Sephiroth wasn't different from the rest? He was able to use the Jenova cells and exert power over them in others, could anyone else do that? If he was just a normal guy with Jenova cells stuck in him why was he able to travel the lifestream as he did? How did he manage to recreate his body at the N. Crater?

As far the ancient stuff, he would have to be fucking retarded to still think he was a Cetra. After falling into the lifestream he gains all the knowledge inside, why would he be driven to (again) do what Jenova had done and bring the planet to near-death so he can absorb it's power? He never makes any claim of being an ancient after Nibleheim and there's no reason to think he still though he was one, he would have had to gloss over quite a bit of information during his time in the lifestream to not know the difference.