North Korean Sabre Rattling 2013 We Nuclear Baby!

[Harajuku]

I do believe they will attack soon, and it won't be just words at that point. They're moving missile platforms(Only 2 that have been spoken of, but still) to the east coast, and they didn't blab about it to the media as they usually do with their rhetoric. We had to find out ourselves. I'd take the US making a preemptive strike, rather than letting them have time to prepare their little "launch 250,000(doubtful it'll be anywhere near THAT high) simultaneously" from their propaganda video. Sure, people will die. It's going to happen either way. I'd much rather our troops based in SK/Japan have the upper hand, rather than getting bombarded first. I highly respect you folk that are stationed there, but that's also what you signed up for, and you knew full well that death is a huge posibility. It's all what comes with being a patriotic war hero. Don't give them time anymore time to actually be able to be a big threat to your family at home, if they are able to have another couple years to refine their nuclear capabilities.

[shepardG]

Well, we haven't ignored it, we've shit talked right back. /shrug
The current bullshit is all it is until someone dies. Then it will be bloody. It will not be glorious it will be horrible and in the end we'll still be a bunch of apes hurling through space on a tiny fucking rock.
If this bullshit keeps going for 20 years I'm all about it. If they get nukes, fuckem, have fun dealing with being a nuclear state. I'm otw to Osan latter this year, if if pops off it does. If it doesn't good. We have no course except to keep calm and carry on.
I'd much rather the media get the shit beat out of them at this point personally. Someone needs to check those fucking fools, IMHO.

[Edelweiss]

Derail, but: http://www.vice.com/read/north-korea...explains-a-lot

It's nice to have confirmation that my late grandfather wasn't joking when he said Korean War vets he knew got high out in the field (before the much more well known use in Vietnam).

Well, we haven't ignored it, we've shit talked right back. /shrug
The current bullshit is all it is until someone dies. Then it will be bloody. It will not be glorious it will be horrible and in the end we'll still be a bunch of apes hurling through space on a tiny fucking rock.
If this bullshit keeps going for 20 years I'm all about it. If they get nukes, fuckem, have fun dealing with being a nuclear state. I'm otw to Osan latter this year, if if pops off it does. If it doesn't good. We have no course except to keep calm and carry on.
I'd much rather the media get the shit beat out of them at this point personally. Someone needs to check those fucking fools, IMHO.

About the nukes thing:
http://www.vice.com/read/north-korea...-more-powerful
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/ko...AJ201302050075

It doesn't look like that's a realistic threat, so that should be a load off your mind at least.

[Egon]

After reading up on some Korean history, I was surprised how reluctant China is in helping them with in the last 20 years. I really don't see any reason why China would want to attack us, even indirectly, they make to much money off of Americans. I say let NK launch 1 missile at us or an ally, watch it fail, then burn the capital city of NK to the ground.

[Apelila]

You guys are also thinking America would be the main occupying force. If NK attacks Japan, Japan will fully stand by the curb stomping of their shit from the air. Then they, the South Koreans, and probably the Chinese will have to work out some situation like Berlin after WWII.

America doesn't have to get involved on the ground, at least not if they don't want to accidentally train the Chinese.

[noblemountain]

You guys are also thinking America would be the main occupying force. If NK attacks Japan, Japan will fully stand by the curb stomping of their shit from the air. Then they, the South Koreans, and probably the Chinese will have to work out some situation like Berlin after WWII.

America doesn't have to get involved on the ground, at least not if they don't want to accidentally train the Chinese.

japan doesn't have an army

[Edelweiss]

wat

They have the self-defense forces; despite how fevently the right-wing nationalists in Japan want to do away with the treaty, i'm pretty sure they're limited in scope with how their forces may operate outside of Japan (a token force of 100 were in Afghanistan years ago doing some non-combat stuff, IIRC).

[Pikarya]

japan doesn't have an army

That's because we're the World Police.

[Byrthnoth]

That's because we're the World Police.

And because one of our conditions of surrender post-WWII was Japan's total disarmament.

[Kryssan]

You guys are also thinking America would be the main occupying force. If NK attacks Japan, Japan will fully stand by the curb stomping of their shit from the air. Then they, the South Koreans, and probably the Chinese will have to work out some situation like Berlin after WWII.

America doesn't have to get involved on the ground, at least not if they don't want to accidentally train the Chinese.

japan doesn't have an army

wat

They have the self-defense forces; despite how fevently the right-wing nationalists in Japan want to do away with the treaty, i'm pretty sure they're limited in scope with how their forces may operate outside of Japan (a token force of 100 were in Afghanistan years ago doing some non-combat stuff, IIRC).

Kinda sorta. Article 9 of their constitution forbids the establishment of any standing military force ( '47 ). That said, they had established the SDF within 10 years of ratifying their constitution ( but were allowed to do so from '52 with MSAP ) following WWII, and it is best probably thought of as an equivalent to our NG.

In '57, Japan entered another agreement ( name currently escapes me ) with the UN that basically states Japan's military forces ( such as they are ) are allowed to be deployed abroad in situations where Japan's national sovereignty and / or security were at risk or when Japan is working with a UN recognized and sanctioned force coalition.

I think the argument could be made that if DPRK makes any motion in the direction of the Japanese territories they would be able to get away with deploying, but it would be unrealistic to imagine them doing so without the US being hot on their heels. Japan definitely has an interest in what DPRK is doing, and if SK and USA were going to hit them I think it would be fair to say that Japan would be with them in some capacity. Just what that capacity would be ( in other words how much of it would be military vice political ) is really the question.

[ringthree]

What we're witnessing is China and Russia egging NK to monitor our tactical response to an eastern theatre encounter. It's a heightened version of Russian flyovers in Alaska and Chinese warships in the Sea of Japan. I'd be highly surprised if any actual action came of this. NK serves its purpose and is allowed to survive and operate as it does because China and Russia.

I was forward deployed to the fleet in Yokosuka and we'd have to respond to shit like this all the time.

Actually, no your conspiracy there isn't true at all. China and Russia already know our capability and wherewithal on the Korean peninsula. China doesn't want a refugee crisis, and Russia basically wants nothing happening on it's eastern side.

[Stanislaw]

Kinda sorta. Article 9 of their constitution forbids the establishment of any standing military force ( '47 ). That said, they had established the SDF within 10 years of ratifying their constitution ( but were allowed to do so from '52 with MSAP ) following WWII, and it is best probably thought of as an equivalent to our NG.

In '57, Japan entered another agreement ( name currently escapes me ) with the UN that basically states Japan's military forces ( such as they are ) are allowed to be deployed abroad in situations where Japan's national sovereignty and / or security were at risk or when Japan is working with a UN recognized and sanctioned force coalition.

I think the argument could be made that if DPRK makes any motion in the direction of the Japanese territories they would be able to get away with deploying, but it would be unrealistic to imagine them doing so without the US being hot on their heels. Japan definitely has an interest in what DPRK is doing, and if SK and USA were going to hit them I think it would be fair to say that Japan would be with them in some capacity. Just what that capacity would be ( in other words how much of it would be military vice political ) is really the question.

Putting all emotions aside from the controversy it'd stir up in doing so, it'd really be in US's interests to let Japan arm again because it'd do away with a lot of funds towards keeping bases stationed in the Far East and whatnot since the US can just then enter into a military partnership with Japan instead of Japan being pretty much dependent on the US for defense. That said, Japan really doesn't need an army but rather a strong naval and air force since, being an island nation, fulfilling those two requirements is all they'll need to keep themselves defended.

The problem of course is that the moment Japan inches even slightly to the right, China will use whatever means necessary to stop it, of which I think is kinda silly since Japan will never reach the highs of military power China has. Ghosts of World War II haunts them too much.

[ringthree]

Do you know how quickly short range missiles can be deployed? Do you think their command will be sitting in an above ground palace drinking soju and eating kimchi? Seriously, go back to Civilization if you think real world warfare is that simple.

You do understand that NK's C3I capability is at best from the 80's and hasn't had maintenance since then right? If Un is sitting in a cave somewhere, how is he going to communicate with his troops that don't have the capability and more importantly the will to fight for him?

Do you have any idea, at all, about NK's military capabilities? Or are you just making shit up?

Yes, NK could shell and have missile attacks on Seoul for a couple of hours, days at tops, and do you know how quickly those forces would be depleted, destroyed or abandoned?

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

You do understand that NK's C3I capability is at best from the 80's and hasn't had maintenance since then right? If Un is sitting in a cave somewhere, how is he going to communicate with his troops that don't have the capability and more importantly the will to fight for him?

Do you have any idea, at all, about NK's military capabilities? Or are you just making shit up?

Yes, NK could shell and have missile attacks on Seoul for a couple of hours, days at tops, and do you know how quickly those forces would be depleted, destroyed or abandoned?

That's millions of lives. And I have a pretty good idea as a SPY-1A radar operator on the AEGIS Class Cruiser, the USS Vincennes, I had to study quite a bit about missiles and their cross section, trajectory, flight systems, targeting systems, payload, etc etc etc. This was in Yokosuka, Japan so we responded very often to threats in the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea.

I've been involved in war games between the US, RoK, Australia, and Singapore preparing for land invasions and sea and air warfare involving a number of different theaters and scenarios. I had to present reports to the CO and XO and Fleet Admiral about certain missiles and threats I was on watch and when / how to alert Operations and FCIS to retaliate against.

So your trite little pussy ass armchair faggotry about some "oh the US will wipe their command off the map before they can blink" is about the dumbest shit I've ever read. In nearly every single scenario no matter what happens there will be millions of lives lost along South Korea and Japan before we know which bunkers to strike where their leadership may be located, not counting countering their attacks and targeting their weaponry.

So please oh wise internet dude who learned startegyyyys from a video game, tell me more about how we should proceed.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.



this too

[Edelweiss]

^If that interview with the anonymous SK soldier is even partially true, the NKs already have positioned themselves for a lengthy land war with networks of bunkers, tunnels, and the like; with provisions even being made against nuclear strikes (indirect, I assume). They also have things in place for an assault on the DMZ and beyond too, by that soldier's account. It isn't going to be some laughable affair.

And that doesn't even account for the humanitarian disaster that follows when the fighting is over. Not to mention what the fuck the world will do about that ass-backwards society, antiquated or non-existent infrastructure, and all the deficiencies the general population are riddled with. Not to mention the environmental problem. The whole thing is going to be a mess for a long time.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I can't wait for ringthrees response after he furiously pores through news articles and google searches to try and convince someone with experience in the region how his internet skills make him right

[ringthree]

^If that interview with the anonymous SK soldier is even partially true, the NKs already have positioned themselves for a lengthy land war with networks of bunkers, tunnels, and the like; with provisions even being made against nuclear strikes (indirect, I assume). They also have things in place for an assault on the DMZ and beyond too, by that soldier's account. It isn't going to be some laughable affair.

And that doesn't even account for the humanitarian disaster that follows when the fighting is over. Not to mention what the fuck the world will do about that ass-backwards society, antiquated or non-existent infrastructure, and all the deficiencies the general population are riddled with. Not to mention the environmental problem. The whole thing is going to be a mess for a long time.

I think you are confusing motivations with capabilities. If what you were saying were the sole determinants of the outcome of a conflict then technology would mean nothing to war-fighting.

As for the later, it's inevitable, some day the South and China are going to have to deal with a fully collapsing North. There is a decent argument to be made that now is better than later. And as for the humanitarian crisis, that's a bit non-unique don't you think?

[ringthree]

I can't wait for ringthrees response after he furiously pores through news articles and google searches to try and convince someone with experience in the region how his internet skills make him right

You don't have "experience", you were a kid on a boat with some high tech gadgets. You learned one thing, and you think that makes you an expert. Not much else to say.

[Cail]