North Korean Sabre Rattling 2013 We Nuclear Baby!

[Sho]

I am not winning the argument that NK's military capability is near worthless?

Except it's not worthless, it's just simply inferior to most other military forces.

The problem is a few certain people in this thread (and in the US) think the US can just go in there, and wreck shit, no retaliation, no problems, minimal resistance. War doesn't work like that, even vs opponents who have inferior military capability. If this was the case, the Vietnam War would have been an easy war to get through, as Vietcong had far inferior weaponry to all of their adversaries. Granted, this was before the highly advanced military technology that's available, but the same rules of war apply when it comes to ground troops going in. They would still have to deal with inter-spy networks and guerrilla warfare.

The simple truth of it all is that people can and will die if the situation escalates to the point of actual war. And it will be our men and women who are stationed around SK, Japan, Hawaii, and Guam (depending) as well as the good people of Seoul and surrounding. They could wipe out Seoul alone if we are just talking about crazy nonstop shelling-- that's why the US has been sending missile defenses to SK as of late.

We can't just go in and firebomb the shit out of NK-- the people that live there aren't all brainwashed, militarized, followers of Un. Many are just people who were born into that world we know as North Korea, much akin to people born into impoverished, 3rd World nations. Regardless, the current retorhic of Un is "If the US/RoK strikes first, then we will retaliate." The italics portion is a big factor. Until then it really is just sabre rattling (at best you will see them shell an uninhabited region of South Korea to further provoke the US). They will have to fire shit off first; we are smart enough to know that we won't pull the trigger preemptively.

---

With that said, it's not my place to give opinions like the rest of you dudes are-- warmongers, arm-chair warriors and what have you. I'm not a man of war, despite having family members in the US Navy, Air Force and Marines as well as the Nigerian military. I do know however that NK's case is not as easy as people perceive. I believe in what MF Perm and Abandon are saying, as I've been hearing it for a while now from family sources.

[Pikarya]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18jn...g/original.jpg

Not sure if posted yet.

[shepardG]

I am honestly confused, what is the argument that you are trying to make? That the DPRK has a military capable of actually conducting a sustained war?

The quote where you say :

"Yes, NK could shell and have missile attacks on Seoul for a couple of hours, days at tops, and do you know how quickly those forces would be depleted, destroyed or abandoned?"
^
I then Quoted you, called you a hypocrit, because in the same quote as the line above this ^ you said : "Do you have any idea, at all, about NK's military capabilities? Or are you just making shit up? "

See you called someone out, then you talked out of your ass, and now your confused because you still haven't came to the realization :

YES NORTH KOREA HAS ENOUGH ARTILLERY, AAA, SURFACE TO AIR, SURFACE TO SURFACE, MANPADS, ETC. TO FIGHT OFF THE US AND THE SOUTH KOREANS FOR MONTHS.... NOT HOURS...NOT DAYS... MONTHS...IT IS FORTIFIED, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT ALL IS, AND 75% OF IT IS WITHIN RANGE OF SEOUL, MEANING IF THING'S KICK OFF, SEOUL, OSAN, MOST SURROUNDING AREAS WILL BE OBLITERATED. I can't capitol type this anymore.

What Perm said was fucking true.

[ringthree]

Except it's not worthless, it's just simply inferior to most other military forces.

The problem is a few certain people in this thread (and in the US) think the US can just go in there, and wreck shit, no retaliation, no problems, minimal resistance. War doesn't work like that, even vs opponents who have inferior military capability. If this was the case, the Vietnam War would have been an easy war to get through, as Vietcong had far inferior weaponry to all of their adversaries. Granted, this was before the highly advanced military technology that's available, but the same rules of war apply when it comes to ground troops going in. They would still have to deal with inter-spy networks and guerrilla warfare.

The simple truth of it all is that people can and will die if the situation escalates to the point of actual war. And it will be our men and women who are stationed around SK, Japan, Hawaii, and Guam (depending) as well as the good people of Seoul and surrounding. They could wipe out Seoul alone if we are just talking about crazy nonstop shelling-- that's why the US has been sending missile defenses to SK as of late.

We can't just go in and firebomb the shit out of NK-- the people that live there aren't all brainwashed, militarized, followers of Un. Many are just people who were born into that world we know as North Korea, much akin to people born into impoverished, 3rd World nations. Regardless, the current retorhic of Un is "If the US/RoK strikes first, then we will retaliate." The italics portion is a big factor. Until then it really is just sabre rattling (at best you will see them shell an uninhabited region of South Korea to further provoke the US). They will have to fire shit off first; we are smart enough to know that we won't pull the trigger preemptively.

---

With that said, it's not my place to give opinions like the rest of you dudes are-- warmongers, arm-chair warriors and what have you. I'm not a man of war, despite having family members in the US Navy, Air Force and Marines as well as the Nigerian military. I do know however that NK's case is not as easy as people perceive. I believe in what MF Perm and Abandon are saying, as I've been hearing it for a while now from family sources.

I never meant to suggest that there would not be causalities. I did mention there would be shelling and missile attacks on Seoul until hostilities are over, but I do not think there will be any extending guerrilla warfare. Guerrilla warfare happens when the people fighting believe they have something to fight for, which just isn't the case for the NK military. I am not suggesting a pre-emptive attack at all, I am just saying the main thrust of the hostilities would be over quickly, and there would be little resistance once that is over.

Also, it is generally accepted (CIA, CSIS, UN, etc.) that NK can't deliver a nuke on any of their platforms yet. If used it would be have to be defensive.

[MaachaQ]

My parents are kinda freaking out on me, but really all the Koreans I talk to don't seem to be afraid at all... Chuncheon is probably far enough from Seoul to escape any initial volleys if NK goes apeshit, but we're close enough to the border that if something really does happen I'm definitely heading south in a hurry.

Here's the latest message from the US Consulate:

Messaage_April04, 2013
A Security Message for U.S. Citizens

The U.S. Embassy informs U.S. citizens that despite current political tensions with North Korea there is no specific information to suggest there are imminent threats to U.S. citizens or facilities in the Republic of Korea (ROK). The Embassy has not changed its security posture and we have not recommended that U.S. citizens who reside in, or plan to visit, the Republic of Korea take special security precautions at this time. The U.S. Embassy takes as its highest priority the welfare of American citizens in Korea. Should the security situation change, the Embassy will issue updated information.

We urge U.S. citizens to keep in regular contact with family and friends. U.S. citizens living or traveling abroad are encouraged to enroll in the Department of State's Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP), to receive the latest travel updates and information and to obtain updated information on travel and security issues.

We encourage you to read the Emergency Preparedness Section of the Embassy website. You can also get global updates at the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Consular Affairs website where you can find the current Worldwide Caution, Travel Warning, Travel Alert, and Country Specific Information. Follow us on Twitter and the ACS Seoul page on Facebook as well, or you can download our free Smart Traveler App, available through iTunes and the Android marketplace to have travel information at your fingertips. U.S. citizens without Internet access may register directly with the appropriate U.S. Embassy or Consulate.By registering, U.S. citizens makeit easier for the U.S. Embassy or Consulate to contact them in case of emergency.

Travel information is also available at http://travel.state.gov/.
Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by calling
1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 am to 8:00 pm Monday through Friday, Eastern Time (except U.S. federal holidays).

For information on "What the Department of State Can and Can't Do in a Crisis," please visit the Bureau of Consular Affairs' website at http://travel.state.gov/. For further information on specific countries, U.S. citizens should consult the Country Specific Information pages, Travel Alerts, and Travel Warnings at http://travel.state.gov/ as well as the Worldwide Caution. Follow us on Twitter and the Bureau of Consular Affairs' page on Facebook as well.

[ringthree]

The quote where you say :

"Yes, NK could shell and have missile attacks on Seoul for a couple of hours, days at tops, and do you know how quickly those forces would be depleted, destroyed or abandoned?"
^
I then Quoted you, called you a hypocrit, because in the same quote as the line above this ^ you said : "Do you have any idea, at all, about NK's military capabilities? Or are you just making shit up? "

See you called someone out, then you talked out of your ass, and now your confused because you still haven't came to the realization :

YES NORTH KOREA HAS ENOUGH ARTILLERY, AAA, SURFACE TO AIR, SURFACE TO SURFACE, MANPADS, ETC. TO FIGHT OFF THE US AND THE SOUTH KOREANS FOR MONTHS.... NOT HOURS...NOT DAYS... MONTHS...IT IS FORTIFIED, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT ALL IS, AND 75% OF IT IS WITHIN RANGE OF SEOUL, MEANING IF THING'S KICK OFF, SEOUL, OSAN, MOST SURROUNDING AREAS WILL BE OBLITERATED. I can't capitol type this anymore.

What Perm said was fucking true.

While you may think Perm is an expert because he was on a boat in the Sea of Japan, there are many real experts that have been making the argument that the qualitative edge of the South Korean and US military forces would make the conflict short and the conclusion decisive since the 80's, and the situation has only gotten worse since then for NK. You can scream all you want, and yes, there would be causalities, but as I said, people that do actual analysis of information (CIA, CSIS, actual, you know, experts) have been saying the threat from NK has been over-exaggerated for years.

But, you know, Perm was THERE man, he was IN THE SHIT, MAN, so he has to know better than those experts, right? Ok, Walter.

[Viq]

My parents are kinda freaking out on me, but really all the Koreans I talk to don't seem to be afraid at all... Chuncheon is probably far enough from Seoul to escape any initial volleys if NK goes apeshit, but we're close enough to the border that if something really does happen I'm definitely heading south in a hurry.

Come hang out in 부산. It's nice and warm, right on da beach. People here give even fewer shits about NK than the zero shits being given by people in Seoul.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

While you may think Perm is an expert because he was on a boat in the Sea of Japan, there are many real experts that have been making the argument that the qualitative edge of the South Korean and US military forces would make the conflict short and the conclusion decisive since the 80's, and the situation has only gotten worse since then for NK. You can scream all you want, and yes, there would be causalities, but as I said, people that do actual analysis of information (CIA, CSIS, actual, you know, experts) have been saying the threat from NK has been over-exaggerated for years.

But, you know, Perm was THERE man, he was IN THE SHIT, MAN, so he has to know better than those experts, right? Ok, Walter.

I briefed the CIA and NSA in the CIC regarding NK, China, Russia and associated threats during training exercises. Sup. ( and was one of 8 debriefed after mildly catastrophic scenarios involving all 3 countries during non training response measures)

Spoiler: show

sup

[ringthree]

I briefed the CIA and NSA in the CIC regarding NK, China, Russia and associated threats during training exercises. Sup. ( and was one of 8 debriefed after mildly catastrophic scenarios involving all 3 countries involved during non training response measures)

Spoiler: show

sup

You briefed the entire CIA and the NSA? Or you put together a report that was given to someone that you were told was given to the CIA and the NSA?

I have noticed that people in the military, especially those not in a warzone, have always had a massively inflated view of the operational importance of their position.

Sup, Walter.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

No they were there as several times we were deployed to protect spy ships or help the fleet recover craft. Hey let me ask you since you're so well read... how long did you serve in the region to have such detailed knowledge?

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Because if you think you can armchair it and know everything that there is to be googled well then, lol. You're obviously highly unaware of several 'incidents' that were never reported among other things. So keep googling shit to counter my experience of being in the shit man, you'll have a good time

[Abandon]

And even when you DO see incidents on the news, how often is it an accurate description of what happened?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/17/war...iref=allsearch

I was on that ship for 3 years, and this story is BS.

So, to make it short, Ring, shut up.

[noblemountain]

i love this thread for so many reasons.

[Cail]

DPRK (NK) has informed most if not all foreign embassies in Pyongyang that they should consider evacuating

[Egon]

Man, this Ring guy is worse than I am....

[Callisto]

ouch

[Abandon]

haha

[Acevalefor]

But guys! Listen! Perm doesn't know what he is talking about because he was there with high tech gadgets monitoring and reporting on DPRK activities. His experience is null and void because it could not be googled. Ringthree has clearly won this argument with his clearly superior knowledge garnered from the comfort of his recliner.

[Salodin]

Worst part is, if nk does attack then ring will come back and say "told you so, we should have attacked first".

[ringthree]

Worst part is, if nk does attack then ring will come back and say "told you so, we should have attacked first".

I never said we should attack first. Keep wailing at your strawmen. LOL