Pope Benedict XVI resigns. Kuya wonders why the catholic church selected a conservative pope

[Helm]

The tears from this have been delicious.

[kuronosan]

Protestants believe Heaven is an exclusive club that you have to buy the membership for before you die.

Fixed that one for you.

[Ksandra]

this was the first thing that came to my mind. i have to say hes either going to end up being excommunicated, or successfully overhaul the catholic church/belief system.

I can only hope the latter. It must be remembered that he is a Jesuit, and this type of language is rather common to them. The only downside is that because he is a Jesuit, the chances of the stance on gay marriage is slim to none.

[ronin sparthos]

this was the first thing that came to my mind. i have to say hes either going to end up being excommunicated, or successfully overhaul the catholic church/belief system. people forget that when jesus supposedly sacrificed himself to absolve us of sin, there were only 12 christians. yet he supposedly died for everybody. So the pope is technically right, even if it doesn't mean potential heaven for atheists. christians for the most part believe Heaven is an exclusive club that you have to buy the membership for before you die.

If everyone gets into Heaven then how else am I going to brag to everyone else up in the big toga party in the sky that I was a better Christian than my shitty neighbor? I followed the rules (the ones i liked anyway), went to Church, kissed the pastors ass, read the Bible in public so Jesus could see that I was doing my religion homework, kept my obsession with female anatomy and gays at its peak and championed my pro-life stance until my lungs went sore.

Excommunication? What the Pope said has been thrown around by numerous theologians in the past and it has given birth to sects of Christianity in the same way that Calvin's ideas influence many Protestant sects. It's a populist message which naturally annoys people especially when they hear that non-Christians might be invited to the circlejerk. When you invest time into something then are presented with the idea that it may all be for naught it's easy to feel slighted but then again that's missing the point of Christianity if you take it seriously. What's taking it seriously? Just my singular interpretation of course.

Keep Heaven as it sounds like hell dealing with Bible beaters on a daily basis and people riding their egos like a kite into the sun. Then again with 'sin' removed what makes them human won't be around anymore so it's not like you'll be able to enjoy the eternal life anyway.

[Salodin]

So many tears over what is basically the pope saying "stop judging people like an asshole and just be good to each other. Well all see each other after death one way or another".

Best statement from a Pope in over a decade?

[Ksandra]

I am both sad and glad I don't get to see the tears on my fb.

Y'all need better friends/relatives.

[Ksandra]

moar:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...tml?ref=topbar

(RNS) Atheists and other nonbelievers largely welcomed Wednesday’s (May 22) remarks by Pope Francis that performing “good works” is not the exclusive domain of people of faith, but rather a place where they and atheists could and should meet.

In a private homily, Francis described doing good not as a matter of faith, but of “duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because he has made us in his image and likeness.”

Then, referring to non-Catholics and nonbelievers, he said, “if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good.”

Reaction among American nonbelievers ranged from mild surprise to warm welcome. Some say they see Francis’ remarks as a sign that nonbelief — atheism, humanism and other forms of freethought — is being normalized, while others see recognition of what they say they have known all along: Having no faith does not mean having no morality.

“We are a community that is just trying to do good and live good lives, just like most communities are,” said Greg Epstein, Harvard University’s Humanist chaplain and author of “Good Without God.” “His statement is an acknowledgment of that. It is welcome and it is gratifying.”

Epstein was struck by the contrast of Francis’ remarks and Tuesday’s broadcast of an interview by CNN’s Wolf Blitzer of an Oklahoma tornado victim. When Blitzer asked the woman if she wanted to thank God for her family’s survival, she replied she is an atheist.

“You have this small example of this soft-spoken young mother who is recovering from the tornado who by her presence, her quiet dignity, not only exemplified what the pope was saying, but overshadowed him,” Epstein said. “The quiet dignity of her just being a person and so clearly a good and loving person, it makes my reaction, and I would think a lot of people’s reaction (to Francis’ remarks), ‘Well, of course.’”

Dale McGowan also affirmed the pope’s recognition of nonbelievers. His Foundation Beyond Belief collects funds from nonbelievers and distributes them to charities and relief organizations and organizes teams of secular volunteers. To date, Foundation Beyond Belief has raised more than $35,000 for victims of the Oklahoma tornado.

“Anything that decreases the mistrust and fear between people is a good thing,” he said. “Some people might say it contradicts past statements (of other popes), but I don’t care about any of that. It is terrific when a position evolves to where we can put division behind us, and this is an example of that and I think it is great.”

D.J. Grothe, president of the James Randi Education Foundation, an organization of skeptics, said he hears echoes of the landmark Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) in Francis’ remarks. And while he takes issue with some policies of the Catholic Church — the promotion of miracles, the opposition to contraception — the pope’s address was nonetheless “refreshing.”

Francis’ predecessor, Benedict XVI, was a vocal opponent of secularism and unbelief, even as he approved a new initiative called “Courtyard of the Gentiles” to engage in dialogue with nonbelievers and linked arms with outspoken Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, an atheist who saw trouble in the growth of European Islam.

“I don’t see that disdain for nonbelief that was so apparent before” in other popes, Grothe said. “He is really talking about what I would call humanism — the ethical approach to making the world a better place without recourse to supernatural beliefs.”

In the same homily, Francis said all people, “even the atheists,” are “redeemed” through “the Blood of Christ” — the Christian belief that the sins of humanity are wiped clean through the crucifixion of Jesus. The inclusion of atheists in a belief they do not share seemed to raise few hackles.

“He was using his own language and speaking from his own beliefs,” McGowan said, a statement echoed by others. “That is not the point. The point is he is saying, ‘I don’t fear you,’ and I think that is a lovely thing.”

[Kyreth]

Of course, one could see what Francis said as saying "Do good things. Regardless of who you are now, this will bring you to God and thus, redemption.". That is, people doing good may not be God-fearing folk, but if they keep doing good, he thinks they'll effectively end up that way by hook or by crook (if you'll pardon the small joke there).

[shaggnix]

If everyone gets into Heaven then how else am I going to brag to everyone else up in the big toga party in the sky that I was a better Christian than my shitty neighbor? I followed the rules (the ones i liked anyway), went to Church, kissed the pastors ass, read the Bible in public so Jesus could see that I was doing my religion homework, kept my obsession with female anatomy and gays at its peak and championed my pro-life stance until my lungs went sore.

Excommunication? What the Pope said has been thrown around by numerous theologians in the past and it has given birth to sects of Christianity in the same way that Calvin's ideas influence many Protestant sects. It's a populist message which naturally annoys people especially when they hear that non-Christians might be invited to the circlejerk. When you invest time into something then are presented with the idea that it may all be for naught it's easy to feel slighted but then again that's missing the point of Christianity if you take it seriously. What's taking it seriously? Just my singular interpretation of course.

Keep Heaven as it sounds like hell dealing with Bible beaters on a daily basis and people riding their egos like a kite into the sun. Then again with 'sin' removed what makes them human won't be around anymore so it's not like you'll be able to enjoy the eternal life anyway.

looking past your obvious cynicism, i'm looking at the theological implications of this. is religion often used by the religious as a way to show their superiority over non-believers? absolutely yes, we've all met those people. are they all like that, or even mostly? i don't have any hard statistics on hand but ... i'm inclined to say they're the minority. maybe not depending on how much you want to split hairs. personaly i think a fear of death is what drives most to religion. remember all the pious posturing means nothing if it isn't genuine, god is omniscient and knows why you did the things you did. as much as these people disgust you, god would be mighty disappointed as well i'm sure.

sure numerous people, myself included, have thrown this or similar ideas around. myself, i've always thought it was amusing that so many people did the right thing out of a desire for heaven or a fear of hell, and that they somehow thought their omniscient god wouldn't see through it, wouldn't see that while they did good things, they did it for selfish reasons. but philosophers and thoelogians say a lot of things. for a pope to take this position is radically different from any previous pope or other high ranking church official. it borders on heresy imo. so it seems like that either the church will change, or this guy gets the boot.

as to weather heaven is good/bad/boring/worth it/etc. would you really take their word for it? would you prefer there be nothing? i don't care who you are or what you think you know, no one knows what lies on the other side of physical death. heaven seems like one of the better possibilities, but no more likely than any other.

[Ashmada]

There's one thing about atheists you keep missing (intentionally?), Shaggnix & Ksandra: we don't believe in either heaven nor hell, so telling us "you can get into heaven as well if you abide by our (terrible) morals!" is just insulting our intelligence, not being tolerant.
(btw, Shaggnix: the pope kinda does the excommunicating. At this point, he could shit on bibles for the rest of his life and he still wouldn't be excommunicated)

I wonder if anyone could possibly have predicted that no matter what he does or says, people are going to find ways to get pissed off about it.

No way, right?

Plowing hard.
There are plenty of things pedoking Bergo could do that wouldn't piss off reasonable people:
- "Hey, how about we turn part of the apostolic palace/palace of the holy order into a homeless shelter/orphanage?"

- "Hey, how about we sold some of our outrageous wealth and gave to the poor?" Y'know, rather than exhorting much less well-off people to give and keep hoarding like every pope before him?

- "Hey, how about we stopped sheltering paedophiles and protecting them from secular justice?"

- "Hey, how about we stopped calling our bigoted ideology a "religion" to exempt it from criticism? Or even better, how about we stopped hating homosexuals/bisexuals/transexuals for no reason?"

-... the list goes on.


Me, I'm with Diderot ("mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"), I wouldn't be contented by anything short of dismantling what is essentially the last Absolute Monarchy in Europe; but there are many who'd be more easily appeased.
People tend to forget that the Vatican is a totalitarian sovereign state with the pope as supreme authority on all matters.
Interesting (but unsurprising) that "let them eat tasteless wafers" succeeded where "let them eat cake" did not.


The guy has a devoted following eating up his every word like it's candy, absolute authority on an extremely rich global cult, he could do a whole lot of good.
Instead, he tries to pressure the EU parliament to adopt anti-abortion laws.

To an american's eyes, a "pro-life" religious nut is utterly banal, I know, but over here, it's pretty major.
See, abortion wasn't an issue here.
When my country partially depenalised IVG in 1989/1990 ("interruption volontaire de grossesse" - voluntary interruption of pregnancy), 86.6% of the population was in favour of the idea.
When you consider that only 27% of the population is irreligious, that's a lot of religious people who didn't oppose abortion.
But when the big honcho in Rome tells them the opposite, suddenly it becomes an issue. Same on the whole continent.
Not content with slowing human progress, the church is now actively trying to lead the way back to where we came from.
So fuck the guy.

[Plow]

Fixed that one for you.

lol? the whole protest thing was about the strict unfairness of the catholic beliefs

There are a few groups of protestants as crazy as the catholics... but not many. Most are much more liberal and reasonable.

[archibaldcrane]

Don't confuse the beliefs/actions of (American) Catholics with the crap spewed from the Vatican.

[Plow]

There's one thing about atheists you keep missing (intentionally?), Shaggnix & Ksandra: we don't believe in either heaven nor hell, so telling us "you can get into heaven as well if you abide by our (terrible) morals!" is just insulting our intelligence, not being tolerant.
(btw, Shaggnix: the pope kinda does the excommunicating. At this point, he could shit on bibles for the rest of his life and he still wouldn't be excommunicated)



Plowing hard.
There are plenty of things pedoking Bergo could do that wouldn't piss off reasonable people:
- "Hey, how about we turn part of the apostolic palace/palace of the holy order into a homeless shelter/orphanage?"

- "Hey, how about we sold some of our outrageous wealth and gave to the poor?" Y'know, rather than exhorting much less well-off people to give and keep hoarding like every pope before him?

- "Hey, how about we stopped sheltering paedophiles and protecting them from secular justice?"

- "Hey, how about we stopped calling our bigoted ideology a "religion" to exempt it from criticism? Or even better, how about we stopped hating homosexuals/bisexuals/transexuals for no reason?"

-... the list goes on.


Me, I'm with Diderot ("mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"), I wouldn't be contented by anything short of dismantling what is essentially the last Absolute Monarchy in Europe; but there are many who'd be more easily appeased.
People tend to forget that the Vatican is a totalitarian sovereign state with the pope as supreme authority on all matters.
Interesting (but unsurprising) that "let them eat tasteless wafers" succeeded where "let them eat cake" did not.


The guy has a devoted following eating up his every word like it's candy, absolute authority on an extremely rich global cult, he could do a whole lot of good.
Instead, he tries to pressure the EU parliament to adopt anti-abortion laws.

To an american's eyes, a "pro-life" religious nut is utterly banal, I know, but over here, it's pretty major.
See, abortion wasn't an issue here.
When my country partially depenalised IVG in 1989/1990 ("interruption volontaire de grossesse" - voluntary interruption of pregnancy), 86.6% of the population was in favour of the idea.
When you consider that only 27% of the population is irreligious, that's a lot of religious people who didn't oppose abortion.
But when the big honcho in Rome tells them the opposite, suddenly it becomes an issue. Same on the whole continent.
Not content with slowing human progress, the church is now actively trying to lead the way back to where we came from.
So fuck the guy.

Missing the point hard.

You don't have to like the guy to understand when he does something right.

You do have to be desperately seeking something to bitch about to complain about it when he does.

[archibaldcrane]

lol? the whole protest thing was about the strict unfairness of the catholic beliefs

There are a few groups of protestants as crazy as the catholics... but not many. Most are much more liberal and reasonable.

Or, what i mean is, if we can say "voted obama=more liberal, voted romney=more conservative" then the average protestant is more conservative than the average catholic. (42% vs. 50%)

[archibaldcrane]

Protestants have been consistently more Republican than Catholics at least since 2000 (and I believe since the 60's at least)

[Blubbartron]

Missing the point hard.

You don't have to like the guy to understand when he does something right.

You do have to be desperately seeking something to bitch about to complain about it when he does.

I look at it more like exaggerated praise for a mentally retarded kid finally being able to identify the letter 'A' after 10 years of education. You should encourage the progress, but looking at it in context is still fucking depressing.

[archibaldcrane]

Also, the average catholic is more likely to support gay marriage than the average protestant.

[Plow]

I think a better comparison would be a child growing up and realizing parents aren't inherently evil, which is a good thing.

But really, the fact that he's talking about how people might appreciate it if a pope tried to move things away from "give us all your money so we can display our opulence" while apparently not realizing he's talking about a pope that's been making news for doing exactly that since literally the moment he became pope says more than I could really put into words.


It's hilariously ironic as well when you consider it's really an extension of the christian message of forgiveness and dude's response is that he's way too good of a person for that shit and it's insulting to insinuate otherwise.

[Plow]

Also, the average catholic is more likely to support gay marriage than the average protestant.

lol what?

[archibaldcrane]

lol what?

On my phone, google image search "support for gay marriage by religion" and look at the polls.