Need help with a logo, willing to pay.

[archibaldcrane]

No it sounds like we want people to be willing to pay for exactly what they want. I don't know how I can simplify it anymore than this for you so you can understand. I can't walk into a sandwich shop and order a sandwich and say "instead of paying you today I am going to go out and tell some friends about how awesome your sandwiches are." Any business that allowed this would go under fast.

Edit: Ksandra it just sounds like you want to get stuff for free from businesses. If art is so easy that you think it should be free then why don't you go out and do it. Or tell your husband to do his work for "recognition" and "exposure" instead of bringing home a paycheck.

sandwich shops have overhead

artists in their parents' basements don't

[zoobernut]

no YOU tried to get me to pay an extra 1k, not the photographer. I made a thread asking about cameras to have a friend do the film and ya flipped your shit when I said videographers were expensive.

I didn't try to get you to do anything you didn't want to do. You want video? It costs money. You either accept that and pay or you don't and you don't get video. It takes a lot of equipment, time, software and experience to do good videography. I was just trying to expose you to the reality of the world. To think you can get good services cheap in a situation where someone has invested so much into their trade is just naive. They have to cover their operating costs in addition to bringing in some sort of salary. Sorry for trying to educate you. Go ahead and go back to being ignorant in the world of how businesses work.

sandwich shops have overhead

artists in their parents' basements don't

Lol computers, software, training, time, license fees, continuing education, etc. the list goes on. To think artists don't have overhead is just a retarded notion. The overhead for various artists may be different but it is still there.

[Ksandra]

Edit: Ksandra it just sounds like you want to get stuff for free from businesses.

last I checked, zigma was offering $50.

Or tell your husband to do his work for "recognition" and "exposure" instead of bringing home a paycheck.

He's so boss he does both at the same time.

[Intervention]

tell your husband to do his work for "recognition" and "exposure" instead of bringing home a paycheck.

You know what, I do and everyone in my field does. It's called a demo reel. But most of the time we do it while working. People kinda like doing stuff for their own personal gain you know.

[Ksandra]

I didn't try to get you to do anything you didn't want to do. You want video? It costs money. You either accept that and pay or you don't and you don't get video. It takes a lot of equipment, time, software and experience to do good videography.

Except I didn't care about having home-movie quality in the video. Which is kinda my point in all this. Not everyone wants that level of work, and you can't expect it to be that way.

Though I stand corrected, I looked up the thread, and while you posted in it, it was Darus Grey flipping on me, not you. Sorry~

[archibaldcrane]

I didn't try to get you to do anything you didn't want to do. You want video? It costs money. You either accept that and pay or you don't and you don't get video.

or you convince some startup go-getter to do it for free

it's one hell of an option

[miokomioko]

You're trying so hard to be that one-liner smartass you get off on being, that you're repeating what the people you're arguing with have already said.

[zoobernut]

Except I didn't care about having home-movie quality in the video. Which is kinda my point in all this. Not everyone wants that level of work, and you can't expect it to be that way.

Though I stand corrected, I looked up the thread, and while you posted in it, it was Darus Grey flipping on me, not you. Sorry~

It is understandable. That thread was from a really long time ago. When it comes to photo stuff I try to educate and be as understandable as possible. I am totally ok with people seeking out the quality level that matches their expectations. If you want home video quality then I encourage you to pick up a cheap video camera and have a family member video it. If you want to hire someone to do it then hire someone with the expectation that the quality of the work will match the quality of the video. That is how it works. In this thread beyond even the OP the discussion is specifically about an expectation in the industry that has been growing a lot from businesses that they can promise an artist exposure and recognition for their work in exchange for free work which is bad for the health of the industry and fosters an environment where companies expect massive quantities of overtime and very poor working conditions for very little pay. We saw it happen a while ago at EA and now it has been happening at quite a few VFX companies in the industry.

[Ksandra]

It is understandable. That thread was from a really long time ago. When it comes to photo stuff I try to educate and be as understandable as possible. I am totally ok with people seeking out the quality level that matches their expectations. If you want home video quality then I encourage you to pick up a cheap video camera and have a family member video it. If you want to hire someone to do it then hire someone with the expectation that the quality of the work will match the quality of the video. That is how it works. In this thread beyond even the OP the discussion is specifically about an expectation in the industry that has been growing a lot from businesses that they can promise an artist exposure and recognition for their work in exchange for free work which is bad for the health of the industry and fosters an environment where companies expect massive quantities of overtime and very poor working conditions for very little pay. We saw it happen a while ago at EA and now it has been happening at quite a few VFX companies in the industry.

Inter sees it in 3D conversion as well. The company he left is hiring artists at $10 an hour. So I understand that. But for them, it isn't because of crowdsourcing (lol who crowdsources 3D conversion?) It's because of it being an inflated market. Which would have happened with or without crowdsourcing.

I want to stress, I am not saying that crowdsourcing is something to jump up and down happily, or anything. Just that it exists and good products can still come from it. It isn't going to go away, so people need to start looking how to use it to their advantage rather than saying it's a rip off/terrible.

Again, only reason I posted was people saying that zigma shouldn't do it. But if he's offering $50, and it's a small business nail shop. I say more power to him if he can find someone who will do what he wants. If he wanted something super professional then he'd go for it.

With that said, as inter pointed out, at least in his field demo reels are really important for showing off work. Lots of people get their start because of their reels. It also isn't always about what you actually did, but that you did something. Inter did a show for Animal Planet. It only last two seasons, but I think the fact he could put it on his resume was huge (regardless of the pay). Pretty much all companies want 5+ years experience. How do you get it when they all require it just to get in? By doing shit for free/low pay in indie work so you can say you've been doing something.

[archibaldcrane]

You're trying so hard to be that one-liner smartass you get off on being, that you're repeating what the people you're arguing with have already said.

The difference is that they're mad about it, lol.

[zoobernut]

With that said, as inter pointed out, at least in his field demo reels are really important for showing off work. Lots of people get their start because of their reels. It also isn't always about what you actually did, but that you did something. Inter did a show for Animal Planet. It only last two seasons, but I think the fact he could put it on his resume was huge (regardless of the pay). Pretty much all companies want 5+ years experience. How do you get it when they all require it just to get in? By doing shit for free/low pay in indie work so you can say you've been doing something.

Well a demo reel is a good point. You create yourself a killer demo reel and put it out there then when someone wanted to use your work they hired you to create new work or they paid you for the work you already did. In my industry as well a Demo reel is king for getting hired to a job. I would rather have people spend a ton of time and effort building a good demo reel rather than doing work for free just to get their name out there.

[Ksandra]

Well a demo reel is a good point. You create yourself a killer demo reel and put it out there then when someone wanted to use your work they hired you to create new work or they paid you for the work you already did. In my industry as well a Demo reel is king for getting hired to a job. I would rather have people spend a ton of time and effort building a good demo reel rather than doing work for free just to get their name out there.

Or they could use the work they're doing for their demo reel. Some people need to pay bills ya know, and if they can't get a job in the industry they get a regular job and try to make their reel on the side. Why not do something that gives them a few bucks in the process?

[zoobernut]

Or they could use the work they're doing for their demo reel. Some people need to pay bills ya know, and if they can't get a job in the industry they get a regular job and try to make their reel on the side. Why not do something that gives them a few bucks in the process?

Yeah if you can get paid for the work then more power to you. All I am saying is from an artists perspective if you think your work is worth X dollars I wouldn't discount it any for a client in exchange for exposure or recognition. Which I have been pretty clear on the whole time. If X dollars is only $50 for a logo that is great! But if you normally want $50 for a logo and someone says that they want to pay you $10 and recognition or exposure for a logo I would say that is a bad business decision on the part of the artist to go for that.

[archibaldcrane]

If someone gave me the opportunity to edit an episode of a critically acclaimed, highly rated network TV drama for free, I'd do that shit in a second.

[Intervention]

If someone gave me the opportunity to edit an episode of a critically acclaimed, highly rated network TV drama for free, I'd do that shit in a second.

I can feel that. As crappy the work conditions are at my company, being able to say I've worked on a number of summer movies for the last 3 years always puts me in perspective.

[tyven]

my old broad fucking rocks the shit out of logobid and some other one. she seems to win one a week. and she isn't even an artist by trade. what a dime.

[iitrueii]

whys everyrone so angry lol

[zeal5050]

First attempt.

Spoiler: show

It's really simple, but I'm not sure how you intend to use it. Print/Signage/Business cards?

[Shade]

Stephen Silver on working for free or for "exposure."



Honestly GL with the logo though. A lot of businesses are quite happy with something that isn't fancy.

[archibaldcrane]

my old broad fucking rocks the shit out of logobid and some other one. she seems to win one a week. and she isn't even an artist by trade. what a dime.

If only she had artistic talent!