Beta Test Emails Now Released

[Grey Jorildyn]

Make a new thread called "Why Yoshi-P doesn't care about english players." Then make the OP just giant troll face picture. Guaranteed to get 200 likes in the first hour, followed by 20 pages of pissed off people posting who can't take a joke.

[Foxer]

I'll take a challenge that's a real challenge any day.

Not a challenge that's waiting for weeks on a 24h pop to claim against JPs or bots or assholes to get dat Ridill. Or waiting 16 hours to get a party and spending a year to get to cap.

Just because games like to hold your hands (so you know...you learn how to play them properly) doesn't mean challenge has suddenly disappeared. Those things don't have to be related even though they often are.

I'm not so much talking about getting back the poorly made games, but instant warps, instant mounts anywhere, instant queues, monthly nerfs, monthly price/credit drops, gear buffs, consumable spammage, ETC, seems to be more common these days than it was before. IDK about you, but I'll pass on that shit. TERA's potential, for instance, went to shit rather quickly once it became what it is now.

I never gave a shit about HNMs either. I didn't get my black belt and Ridill 'til 2008, and started playing in 2003? That wasn't challenging, IMO, but things like salvage, and most of the old school super progression shit FFXI offered, which took quite a bit of time of constantly doing things was what kept most of us around IMO. Weeded out some of the fucking idiots too. Games don't do that anymore. That's for sure.

[Lucavi]

Pretty sure you just made that up.

Hey, guess what I heard? The people that keep talking about other games, and how they are all obviously super superior to FFXI, are the ones complaining. Good thing no one brought any type of evidence to this argument, hurray!

Okay? Prove it or shut the hell up, lol. Good luck with that one. Ball's in your court.

[Gokulo]

Pretty sure you just made that up.

Hey, guess what I heard? The people that keep talking about other games, and how they are all obviously super superior to FFXI, are the ones complaining. Good thing no one brought any type of evidence to this argument, hurray!

We must have access to a different Beta Forum.

[Achitophel]

Okay? Prove it or shut the hell up, lol. Good luck with that one. Ball's in your court.

We must have access to a different Beta Forum.

Is this real life? Make a claim and when someone doubts it, demand they prove you wrong?

You guys don't happen to like anime, do you?

[Gokulo]

Lmao, just stop.

Anyone can see what is happening on the forum currently.

[Achitophel]

Oh lord.

[Rocl]

what am i even reading holy shit

this is the worst flood and you are the worst noah

[Elcura]

I'm not so much talking about getting back the poorly made games, but instant warps, instant mounts anywhere, instant queues, monthly nerfs, monthly price/credit drops, gear buffs, consumable spammage, ETC, seems to be more common these days than it was before. IDK about you, but I'll pass on that shit. TERA's potential, for instance, went to shit rather quickly once it became what it is now.

I never gave a shit about HNMs either. I didn't get my black belt and Ridill 'til 2008, and started playing in 2003? That wasn't challenging, IMO, but things like salvage, and most of the old school super progression shit FFXI offered, which took quite a bit of time of constantly doing things was what kept most of us around IMO. Weeded out some of the fucking idiots too. Games don't do that anymore. That's for sure.

I get what you mean, I kinda like that slowish progression method too. FFXI was full of it, salvage, limbus, dynamis etc were all slow burners which kept us around for a while except the actual game play was poo so there's a limit to how awesome it could be (but in terms of content that would last a while, it was fine).

These days, I want a real challenge, like difficult dungeons or bosses or even a hard series of questions. I don't really mind if things are faster/easier to obtain generally if the hard shit is still hard. The only thing that annoys me is when they nerf perfectly good bosses/areas to make them generally easier for the population.

[Kachiko]

I get what you mean, I kinda like that slowish progression method too. FFXI was full of it, salvage, limbus, dynamis etc were all slow burners which kept us around for a while except the actual game play was poo so there's a limit to how awesome it could be (but in terms of content that would last a while, it was fine).

These days, I want a real challenge, like difficult dungeons or bosses or even a hard series of questions. I don't really mind if things are faster/easier to obtain generally if the hard shit is still hard. The only thing that annoys me is when they nerf perfectly good bosses/areas to make them generally easier for the population.

It depends on what the DEVs think. Is it supposed to be a progression dungeon? If they think the encounter is over-tuned, because players are using non-standard methods to complete it, and the players who thought up said tactics, don't think it's over-tuned, who's right? Generally, you also want your players to be able to see your content, lest you get that glass ceiling affect Vanilla WoW had with their 40 man raids (hard vs organization/Simon says scaling?) Sure, you can have that ultimate hard mode and leave it at that, but the vast majority, of your player base, should be able to complete and experience the vast majority of the games content.

[arus2001]

Assuming instanced content doesn't come with difficulty modes, I pretty much don't give a shit if something's AV level dumb as long as people have alternative options to whatever it drops as long as they aren't AV dumb, too. That way, those that want the challenge can chip away. Those that just want shinies can do their own thing. Meanwhile, if it turns into, "NOBODY EVER DOES THE HARD STUFF, WAAAAAA!" then there just might be a reason beyond how it's balanced. See: 5 hour a day poster for example of what not to do.

[Sephiroth]

The people crying about how the game should be difficult and time consuming in every aspect would be the first to exploit any weakness in the systems or take the easiest possible route, Garuda in V1 is a lovely example. It's this mentality that resulted in 200 hours of auto attacking crabs in XI with the occasion button push to use a weapon skill. The difficulty to them was the time investment, but it had to be easy content or they wouldn't do it.

SE could cater to these types too if they want the extra subs. Instead of letting them move on to the next game they could open a server where EXP gained is 1/10, drop rates are 1/10, mob HP is *10 etc. Small changes to make that would earn them the cash. Call it FFXIV Extreme mode or something.

[Alkar]

The people crying about how the game should be difficult and time consuming in every aspect would be the first to exploit any weakness in the systems or take the easiest possible route, Garuda in V1 is a lovely example. It's this mentality that resulted in 200 hours of auto attacking crabs in XI with the occasion button push to use a weapon skill. The difficulty to them was the time investment, but it had to be easy content or they wouldn't do it.

SE could cater to these types too if they want the extra subs. Instead of letting them move on to the next game they could open a server where EXP gained is 1/10, drop rates are 1/10, mob HP is *10 etc. Small changes to make that would earn them the cash. Call it FFXIV Extreme mode or something.

In that case they would complain that everyone else also needs to play like that (see the claim thread) and they wouldn't stop anyway.

[Rionel]

There is no stopping them from not being satisfied it seems. But what else can anyone do about it? All we can really do it hope for the best, and that the incredibly loud voice of the OF/Beta forums is actually a minority of people going to play FFXIV.

[miokomioko]

I suppose you can try to be louder than them, but it's exhausting. It's like verbal retard strength.

[Elcura]

It depends on what the DEVs think. Is it supposed to be a progression dungeon? If they think the encounter is over-tuned, because players are using non-standard methods to complete it, and the players who thought up said tactics, don't think it's over-tuned, who's right? Generally, you also want your players to be able to see your content, lest you get that glass ceiling affect Vanilla WoW had with their 40 man raids (hard vs organization/Simon says scaling?) Sure, you can have that ultimate hard mode and leave it at that, but the vast majority, of your player base, should be able to complete and experience the vast majority of the games content.

Generally the devs have right of way. If the devs think it's broken, too hard or too easy generally they know best how to tune it later. This of course falls apart when you think of SE/FFXI, where the playerbase were definitely more in touch than the devs ever were.

And I agree, the majority of your playerbase should be able to complete the content. It's just not smart to design the game any other way, having said that, I do like a challenge and ultimately "hard mode" for as cheap a solution as it is might just be the best way to handle it. If hard mode rewards were just you get x item faster than easy/normal mode then it isn't more of a bragging point when it comes to actual tangible progress for your characters.

The people crying about how the game should be difficult and time consuming in every aspect would be the first to exploit any weakness in the systems or take the easiest possible route, Garuda in V1 is a lovely example. It's this mentality that resulted in 200 hours of auto attacking crabs in XI with the occasion button push to use a weapon skill. The difficulty to them was the time investment, but it had to be easy content or they wouldn't do it.

SE could cater to these types too if they want the extra subs. Instead of letting them move on to the next game they could open a server where EXP gained is 1/10, drop rates are 1/10, mob HP is *10 etc. Small changes to make that would earn them the cash. Call it FFXIV Extreme mode or something.

The problem XI had with this was mostly due to XP loss on death. You'd be surprised how such a small mechanic in overall terms could have such a huge impact on the mentality of players. Which is to say, it made us all chicken shit scaredy cats.

[Rionel]

I suppose you can try to be louder than them, but it's exhausting. It's like verbal retard strength.

Haha, maybe. Though my general feeling is that there is a silent majority that disagrees with much of what the OF/Beta forums has to say. But like many have said before, it's just too exhausting and not worth it sometimes to try and reason with just people. Some people just wanna watch the world burn I suppose...

Edit: Dear God, how does Yoshida stay sane with these people. I seriously have to commend him for somehow managing to not explode in utter frustration from the forums. Truly, he has the patience of a saint.

[Izzy]

I don't look at anything on the Beta forums except for the dev tracker now.

I don't want to have to pay for another monitor because I punched through mine trying to hit an OF poster IRL.

[Eagleheart]

The problem XI had with this was mostly due to XP loss on death. You'd be surprised how such a small mechanic in overall terms could have such a huge impact on the mentality of players. Which is to say, it made us all chicken shit scaredy cats.

^o.o I had around 4,000 KOs by the time I quit XI.

It was actually kind of a contest by the end of it 0.o who got slaughtered the most frequently?!

[Lucavi]

I suppose you can try to be louder than them, but it's exhausting. It's like verbal retard strength.

The positive thing to take from all of this is the realization that volume, by itself, does nothing. You have to have ideas behind it, relevant to the goals of the developer. The OF tards aren't seeing what and where Yoshi is seeing, and he is not listening to them because of it. The best the OFers can hope for is small gains in terms of helping to polish up the experience itself, but they'll never get the sweeping changes they want.

Wow, this really does sound like politics, now. Ugh. Political discourse all up in my games. D: