Beta Test Emails Now Released

[Kelenae]

The positive thing to take from all of this is the realization that volume, by itself, does nothing. You have to have ideas behind it, relevant to the goals of the developer. The OF tards aren't seeing what and where Yoshi is seeing, and he is not listening to them because of it. The best the OFers can hope for is small gains in terms of helping to polish up the experience itself, but they'll never get the sweeping changes they want.

Wow, this really does sound like politics, now. Ugh. Political discourse all up in my games. D:

MMO's are a series of compromises in a design point of view I guess. So its kinda like Politics.

[Elcura]

MMO's are a series of compromises in a design point of view I guess. So its kinda like Politics.

Not MMOs, all games. Or all AAA games at least. And usually it's from top to bottom.

[Sephiroth]

The problem XI had with this was mostly due to XP loss on death. You'd be surprised how such a small mechanic in overall terms could have such a huge impact on the mentality of players. Which is to say, it made us all chicken shit scaredy cats.

This was certainly part of the problem. But at the end of the day it all came down to EXP per hour and even assuming 0 deaths people would choose the mobs they could chain the fastest, which meant the easiest weakest shit possible. SE didn't really balance it in that tougher mob species should give more EXP. Or maybe they did but it wasn't enough, I can't remember.

[Fievel]

This was certainly part of the problem. But at the end of the day it all came down to EXP per hour and even assuming 0 deaths people would choose the mobs they could chain the fastest, which meant the easiest weakest shit possible. SE didn't really balance it in that tougher mob species should give more EXP. Or maybe they did but it wasn't enough, I can't remember.

They did, but there was an incredibly low cap on how much exp a mob could give you without a chain. I believe it was 200.

[Churchill]

what 1.0 did well was make trash mobs trash. if there's one thing i hate it's fighting something that's a trash mob in carebear pve land and i'm playing the most OP dps class available and i blow all my cooldowns and it's still not dead.

XI had this problem as well, where it took 6 people (4dps) to kill a trash mob that was a couple levels higher in 10s or less. dumb.

[Eagleheart]

Poked over to the OF a moment ago >.> the harpies are loosed, the shrieking is horrendous. Apparently their faith in Yoshi P has been misplaced, and they've been had.

*cracks open a cream soda*

I think I'll just watch them whip themselves into a frenzy today. No amount of rational counterpoints will cure what ails these individuals. (~o.o)~ Naught to do but watch and laugh since Yoshi P's made his position clear.

I hope he posts more often, though. This is hilarious.

[Waraji]

I wish, much like the Nazi's in Inglorious Basterds, we could brand the crazies in the OF to actual players in game. This way come retail, we can discern the crazies and be able to preemptively disbar them from interaction with us, the non-crazies.

[Pooky]

I wish, much like the Nazi's in Inglorious Basterds, we could brand the crazies in the OF to actual players in game. This way come retail, we can discern the crazies and be able to preemptively disbar them from interaction with us, the non-crazies.

I'm all for the Dev's branding their characters with tattoos on their foreheads. Or making them all have a permanent title that can't be turned off saying "I'm an idiot on OF" or something.

[Makwa]

I can't. I just can't. Why do I even look? It's like a trainwreck.

[Eagleheart]

Yes, yes it is. :3 Here's a good one for you. In a thread about how awesome Ifrit Extreme was (basically a thread saying XIV endgame fights have a lot of potential)

While I appreciate what you are trying to do here, you aren't really selling your point with this example. There are any number of fights in any number of MMOs more complex than Ifrit Extreme. Maybe not as hard, but more complex. Pulling from my own experience, virtually any fight from FFXI:CoP was more complex than Ifrit: Extreme in terms of raw information the player had to keep track of. From what I understand, there were several fights in WoW, as well as more recent MMOs that fit the bill as well.

*scratches chin*

I remember: Mistmelt, CCB Polymer Pump, burning Tenzen to the ground, and a kill sequence in Promy-Vahzl and at Pots in Ru'Hmet. That's about it.

(o.O ) Can anyone help me out on this one?

[miokomioko]

So... level-capped (artificially difficult) fights that boiled down to 'tank/spank' or 'kite/snipe'... OR 'use item for easy mode.'

COMPLEXITY.

[Stanislaw]

(o.O ) Can anyone help me out on this one?

One thing I'll give is that FFXI CoP mission fights were far more 'accident' prone compared to all the fights in FFXIV 1.0. For example, once my static got the strategy down for Nael (Hard) after being killed by him for a constant week, we could beat it again with a very high success rate.

CoP on the other hand, I remember my static facing Ultima so many times, and even after we've managed to beat him the success rate after did not stay constant because there always was this certain luck factor involved. In CoP, if the enemy kept on using the same wrong TP moves you were very much dead.

[Takiwaki]

Complexity

[Lucavi]

That was one of the core arguments by XI proponents over WoW's raiding model: the random factor vs. the timed execution factor. XI mobs had a handful of moves, but could use them randomly, without warning, typically needing moar shadows or a stun to deal with, while WoW raids were all about executing a specific method at a specific set of times, for the most part.

Early examples of both were Sky Kings vs. Heigan in Naxxramas. Kings had a few spells that could be cast randomly, a few abilities that could be cast randomly, and their random 2hr. Heigan, for the most part, was a simplistic fight until... the dance. If you danced the dance properly, you essentially won.

Both involved healthy doses of burning shit down during "downtime" (the period of time where the boss isn't doing their respective abilities), and both were expanded upon heavily, but that difference in design philosophy made for so many stupidly heated debates back in the day.

These new OF twits really don't have a leg to stand on with their asinine comparison between XI and 1.0.

[Shimbo]

Yes, yes it is. :3 Here's a good one for you. In a thread about how awesome Ifrit Extreme was (basically a thread saying XIV endgame fights have a lot of potential)



*scratches chin*

I remember: Mistmelt, CCB Polymer Pump, burning Tenzen to the ground, and a kill sequence in Promy-Vahzl and at Pots in Ru'Hmet. That's about it.

(o.O ) Can anyone help me out on this one?

The hardest part was running thru all the mazes with people who don't know how to use a map or pay attention..

[Lokus]

That was one of the core arguments by XI proponents over WoW's raiding model: the random factor vs. the timed execution factor. XI mobs had a handful of moves, but could use them randomly, without warning, typically needing moar shadows or a stun to deal with, while WoW raids were all about executing a specific method at a specific set of times, for the most part.

Early examples of both were Sky Kings vs. Heigan in Naxxramas. Kings had a few spells that could be cast randomly, a few abilities that could be cast randomly, and their random 2hr. Heigan, for the most part, was a simplistic fight until... the dance. If you danced the dance properly, you essentially won.

Both involved healthy doses of burning shit down during "downtime" (the period of time where the boss isn't doing their respective abilities), and both were expanded upon heavily, but that difference in design philosophy made for so many stupidly heated debates back in the day.

These new OF twits really don't have a leg to stand on with their asinine comparison between XI and 1.0.

I'd actually prefer a random factor for boss fights than scripted or timed events. The latter requires preparation and setup for each phase or whatnot so there are some tactics involved, not to mention dodging things in between, so it's not completely herp derp. However, Boss mods are more easily made with the latter as well, a staple for modern MMOs that I don't agree with but that's another can of worms.

A blend of both philosophies would be ideal. Just have some scripted events that test the players execution but pull from an assortment of different events that can happen so the player will have to guess and adapt. Toss the random factor in there where if certain combos of moves occur, surviving becomes impossible unless everyone is on point.

[miokomioko]

The key thing being that enemy attacks/actions/situations need to be something you can react to. In fact, while we're at it, mobs need their own action cooldowns so you don't end up with a ruined run from nothing but spammed Brainjack.

[Rocl]

The key thing being that enemy attacks/actions/situations need to be something you can react to. In fact, while we're at it, mobs need their own action cooldowns so you don't end up with a ruined run from nothing but spammed Brainjack.

Do you know Long-Armed Chariot works lol? At least, in Salvage v1, which is what I assume you're on about. Brainjack only fires off at 74, 49, and 24%-- and afaik, it doesnt stop spamming for 60s or until everyone is charmed. It's totally predictable. Other chariots with Brainjack, as far as I know, don't use Brainjack multiple times in a row (rather as a normal TP move, and as such you should have MAYBE two bros charmed at once, and if you can't handle that !!!!!)

What I'm saying is, you quoted an instance where you can anticipate an enemy action.

oh and if you're too slow it'll Brainjack it says here on wiki, so it's either 25% dmg or 3mins, either wayyyyyyyyyyy you can see when it's going to happen and attempt to charm the world for 60s, giving you ample time to prepare to kite/spread out/etc

[Eagleheart]

Do you know Long-Armed Chariot works lol? At least, in Salvage v1, which is what I assume you're on about. Brainjack only fires off at 74, 49, and 24%-- and afaik, it doesnt stop spamming for 60s or until everyone is charmed. It's totally predictable. Other chariots with Brainjack, as far as I know, don't use Brainjack multiple times in a row (rather as a normal TP move, and as such you should have MAYBE two bros charmed at once, and if you can't handle that !!!!!)

What I'm saying is, you quoted an instance where you can anticipate an enemy action.

oh and if you're too slow it'll Brainjack it says here on wiki, so it's either 25% dmg or 3mins, either wayyyyyyyyyyy you can see when it's going to happen and attempt to charm the world for 60s, giving you ample time to prepare to kite/spread out/etc

Well, while you can estimate roughly where a mob's HP is at looking at the gauge, folks who did not utilize Windower could not tell HP% (o.O ) I was one of them who broke down once we hit Slavage and finally started using windower because I was so tremendously irritated by the event in general, and I wanted Windower for the Distance plugin.

Helped a ton. @.@

[miokomioko]

I figured that would happen and I would get called out. It's been years since I Salvaged. My quick look-up just said "Tends to spam it at low HP."

However, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.