Windower 4 - Discussion and Support

[Anomie]

I pretty much assumed that, just curious where the line is drawn these days....

I would kinda think fully automating gearswaps would be more cheating than say, preventing a spell interruption or just mild annoyance of being knocked back half an inch.

Suppose just an opinion though.

[Byrthnoth]

We are not exactly above trying out such things. Ashita's knockback blocker doubtlessly came from a discussion on Windower's Lua IRC channel and used to be a hidden feature of battlemod on the -dev version. I do not see any features from the Ashita addon community that I do not recognize (actually, there is only 1 I see that isn't covered by Windower or Cupper, the knockback thing). Anyway, these are easily created through LuaCore but will never be accepted in the repository because they represent a riskier form of third party involvement. Understand that almost all the features you will see are seriously 20 line addons. If you want them, make them and don't tell us about them.

By not accepting such things into the repository, we shield people who don't understand the technical underpinnings of those addons from the risks that are involved in using them. We also theoretically reduce the odds of Windower getting C&D'd by SE and retain our status in the white-ish hat third party program community.

[Arcon]

Also note that there are different kinds of cheating. Automating anything isn't something we generally frown upon, as long as it's within the limitations of the game. Automatically re-applying a buff or debuff for example is considered cheating by many, but it's nothing you couldn't do without Windower as long as you're paying attention. Avoiding knockback, seeing dead mobs, preventing spell interruption, scanning the zone for popped NMs and so on are things that are not possible on Vanilla POL, hence we won't implement them.

However, we enable full packet injection and modification, so if you want to, you could get some of these things to work without much effort. Since you asked where the line was drawn: we tolerate them, but will not accept them in our official repository. So you won't find them in Launcher, but you are free to develop and share them (not like we can stop you, or like we cared). I'm already aware of all of the above things having been made for Windower, and a few more that we won't officially support. I don't think it should be that hard to get your hands on some of them if you ask around.

[Anomie]

Totally legit answer, appreciate that.

If I knew how, I'd totally make it, but beyond being completely clueless, yeah.

Since cupper (seems) to be "fairgame" as legit, one would think that removing knockback would fall in the same(ish) category as negating bind/gravity.

[Arcon]

It is in the same category, which is why we don't consider Cupper to be "fair game" at all. As far as Windower is concerned Clipper/Cupper are a no go, which is why you won't find plugins/addons that manipulate movement speed, circumvent bind/gravity or allow pos/wall hacks. They're both third party tools that are unrelated to Windower.

[Kohan]

Since cupper (seems) to be "fairgame" as legit, one would think that removing knockback would fall in the same(ish) category as negating bind/gravity.

I believe that most people only accept the PC collision removal function to be "fair game," and perhaps even more so now, due to the official removal of it (in relation to long-idle PCs). Anything else, not so much.

[Arcon]

Interesting, I didn't know Cupper had the collision removal option. Time to add that!

[Fake]

Knockback removal is implemented differently from JAzero?

I ask since JAzero is in the launcher and is considered by most people to be past the "line" of what can be considered enhancement and becoming an unfair advantage.

The obvious solution is hopefully Cair could update Cupper to incorporate the knockback feature, but I haven't seem him post much recently so that may not be an option.

[Raelia]

JAzero can be 'emulated' in a consistent vanilla way by abusing gear swaps or in a passive way by swapping out JA animations.

[Fake]

Is that specifically how the plugin and cupper achieves it though?

[Byrthnoth]

No, and that doesn't always work. Certain animations are forced to display even if you change gear.

Cupper can't remove knockback or draw-in because it doesn't have a packet interface.

[Arcon]

Technically, Cupper could just force-write your position over and over again to get a similar effect, but it wouldn't be entirely the same (and would be quite detectable to both the server and other players). Knockback is transmitted to the client through a packet, and that part of the packet can just be altered to remove the knockback effect altogether, which means the client would never know a knockback occured. That's how the addons that achieve that work.

And yes, both JaZero and Bidder violate our normal principles in that regard, which is why they aren't "official" official, they're just distributed through our launcher (the launcher also mentions that they aren't officially supported). We just happen to consider them non-abusive enough to allow them in there.

[Trumpy]

Gametime: on game day change gives error:

gametime: Lua error (runtime) - ...ramfiles (x86)/windower4//addons/libs/functions.lua.101: attempt to call upvalue 'fn1' (a nil value)

[solkanar]

Not sure who's maintaining the Timers plugin but any chance it's going to include GEO Indi spells? That would be much appreciated.

[Arcon]

I wasn't aware that it didn't, unless they aren't in the resources there is no reason why Timers shouldn't display them.

[solkanar]

They do show up on recast, but i guess I was looking for them to show up on buff timer, like say haste or protect would. I know the self buffing spells give a buff icon but the enfeebling indi's don't so not sure how that would work.

[detlef]

Is there a way to display remaining aftermath duration?

[Arcon]

The client doesn't know that as far as I'm aware, so it has to be calculated. StatusTimer does report Aftermath to some degree (although I haven't personally worked on it, so not sure how well exactly that works).

[Mafai]

Is there a way to display remaining aftermath duration?

StatusTimers should countdown the timer correctly over the AM icon. If its not which relic/mythic/empy isnt it working on (including the level of it)

[Raithen]

Did Battlemod's "default" color setting get changed very recently from game default to battlemod default? I haven't changed anything in any settings, my color file is still all 0s, but I logged in today and the chat log is a rainbow of terrible color vomit of default battlemod name colors.

To test, I changed every color setting in the colors.xml to 10 and reloaded. Everything came up as a light red/pink. That worked. I changed everything back to 0 and reloaded. Back to random horrible color battlemod defaults. I don't want my name to be red.