Rune Fencer Findings

[Sayzar]

DRK has heavy gear (which is geared more towards STR for Resolution than light gear), attack bonus, 25% haste and attack on Last Resort, and Ragnarok/OAT Magian GSD. Giving even a 25% attack bonus to a hypothetical ability won't infringe on DRK's DD applications.

That is very true. Would be nice for SE to scrap the "Tank" idea and re-purpose RUN as a DD/Support role. Wouldn't really have to revamp the job enntirely just maybe the Duration and cooldown of Swordplay and a couple merited abilities for Atk. I don't need RUN to stand toe-to-toe with every other DD but not being so behind in the curb would be nice.

[Sayzar]

At least we get epic skirmish one. But yeah we are seriously missing DD buffs. Att in particular since we are on thf gear and such and using a ws with an att penalty. Along with the buff with runes I'd love if it gave secondary stat instead. Like fire att, ice mab, earth def etc like the same ones on elemental magians. Of course amounts will vary depending on stat. 20 att per rune would be reasonable 20 mab not as much. But try to balance it so most might have a situational purpose to give the rune usage a degree of flexibility kinda like blu spell setting.

Maybe it's just me, but I try to match my Runes to the weakness of the Mob I'm fighting. Doing that would make RUN favor Fire and Ice (when lunge is off cooldown) mainly. I get what you mean though but I would rather them do that through job abilities that don't make me have to favor one rune over another, perhaps added, or perhaps merited.

[Jem]

Crobaci? I'm not familiar with that. What's the specs?

It's the skirmish one which basically rivals or betters Ragna depending on augment. It's also 5 hittable.

In the future RUN will at least have the option of going RUN/DRK and getting 15% JA Haste after they make the Last Resort changes. Not sure if that will work out better than subbing SAM though.

I think for the time being on content where RUN's attack is seriously an issue, the best way forward for them is to rely on Ruinator and dual wielding. Not sure is Axe/Axe or Axe/Sword is better though. Aalak's + Epheremon or whatever it's called is probably the best combination atm.

[Sayzar]

It's the skirmish one which basically rivals or betters Ragna depending on augment. It's also 5 hittable.

In the future RUN will at least have the option of going RUN/DRK and getting 15% JA Haste after they make the Last Resort changes. Not sure if that will work out better than subbing SAM though.

I think for the time being on content where RUN's attack is seriously an issue, the best way forward for them is to rely on Ruinator and dual wielding. Not sure is Axe/Axe or Axe/Sword is better though. Aalak's + Epheremon or whatever it's called is probably the best combination atm.

Oh I see, got a link for info on how to get it? I'm assuming SoA content which I don't have any experience in currently.

[Jem]

Oh I see, got a link for info on how to get it? I'm assuming SoA content which I don't have any experience in currently.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/115...nd-Information

We don't know a whole lot about it at the moment because the entry items are hard to come by.

[cassiraa]

And, so far, what role do you think RUN can have in group play? I see RUN on a DD party on NMs that deal too much AoE elemental damage, so that their elemental protection relieves a good amount of stress to the WHMs, while contributing a decent amount of damage themselves.

What I don't see RUN doing now is... Tanking. Their elemental defense may be good (it is), but they are too far from PLD to withstand normal mobs hits with ease... Much less NM caliber hits. And, considering their evasive capabilities aren't that good either, I see them as support/DD rather than tanks.

This is fairly accurate. Every job that can be called a tank has a way of mitigating damage on their main job. RUN doesn't have that other than Phalanx, something easily acquired by other tanks through their party. Heck, I'd argue that having a way to survive taking hits better than allies is what makes a job a tank. I suppose if mobs used entirely 100% elemental non-physical damage attacks RUN would do ok, Assuming it didn't switch elements on them. But even then, that's an Aegis pld being called in to handle it.

The best thing I can hope for is getting a defensive merit stance like Fan Dance to give them a tanking option. Or maybe something like Parry Mastery that adds partial parries near the level of pld shield blocks (except without the other bonuses pld gets). That would fix most of the issues with the job. They'd be able to tank with their stance, and sub whatever suits them best for enmity or additional survival.

[dasva]

Maybe it's just me, but I try to match my Runes to the weakness of the Mob I'm fighting. Doing that would make RUN favor Fire and Ice (when lunge is off cooldown) mainly. I get what you mean though but I would rather them do that through job abilities that don't make me have to favor one rune over another, perhaps added, or perhaps merited.

Yeah but right now the enspell is kinda crap and the dmg reduction they were designed for isn't stuff we are fighting. Now on 1 element spammy mobs you'd still want opposing runes. But this will give you something for the other 99.99% of the time. Something hits hard physically? Def rune. You want to physical dd more att magic mab. Multi element spammer? Mdb. Evasive mob get acc. Hell hp/mp might even have a use in salvage lol

[Sayzar]

This is fairly accurate. Every job that can be called a tank has a way of mitigating damage on their main job. RUN doesn't have that other than Phalanx, something easily acquired by other tanks through their party. Heck, I'd argue that having a way to survive taking hits better than allies is what makes a job a tank. I suppose if mobs used entirely 100% elemental non-physical damage attacks RUN would do ok, Assuming it didn't switch elements on them. But even then, that's an Aegis pld being called in to handle it.

The best thing I can hope for is getting a defensive merit stance like Fan Dance to give them a tanking option. Or maybe something like Parry Mastery that adds partial parries near the level of pld shield blocks (except without the other bonuses pld gets). That would fix most of the issues with the job. They'd be able to tank with their stance, and sub whatever suits them best for enmity or additional survival.

Maybe even a stance that "Changes physical damage recieved into Elemental Damage based on Runes harbored"?

[Sayzar]

Yeah but right now the enspell is kinda crap and the dmg reduction they were designed for isn't stuff we are fighting. Now on 1 element spammy mobs you'd still want opposing runes. But this will give you something for the other 99.99% of the time. Something hits hard physically? Def rune. You want to physical dd more att magic mab. Multi element spammer? Mdb. Evasive mob get acc. Hell hp/mp might even have a use in salvage lol

Point taken, I didn't think about the fact that 'so far' in my tests with lunge I didn't see a difference in damage if I was exploiting my targets weakness.

[Taim Meich]

I don't think the enspell is crap. I get from 36 to 40 enspell damage with 3 runes, and while not groundbreaking, it is a big chunk of the RUN's dps right now.

[dasva]

I don't think the enspell is crap. I get from 36 to 40 enspell damage with 3 runes, and while not groundbreaking, it is a big chunk of the RUN's dps right now.

Out of curiosity what weapon? I should probably go back to trying to nail down the formula...

[Sayzar]

Out of curiosity what weapon? I should probably go back to trying to nail down the formula...

I get 34-40 using Gram

[Taim Meich]

I get 34-40 using Gram

Same here, 34-40 with Gram.

[chichicha]

I tried RUN/WAR in Ig-Alima.

Berserk Warcry with Buffs, my atk pass 1k.
Aggressor is another benefit on acc.
p.s. I was using Sole Sushi, coz I don't want to wiff..., eventhough my skill is capped.

My WS DMG spiked up to 2.8k (eyeballing)

I might try again with what I just learned from Windower 4 addons. (Scoreboard) ^^

Of course, I'm using Hoarfrost... that dick is stingy yet to give me a Borealis...

Rune - doing around 20+ , I guess it's Ig-Alima mag def or something. Unda is what I used, since he seems to me a fire base mob.
Lunge deal at 500-600, without Gambit, but Ascetic Drink.

Not sure Lux Rune would help to avoid Doom... but I doubt it

[Huntyadown]

I was laying in bed tonight and I couldn't sleep. After doing my usual browsing around I got to thinking about Rune Fencer and what it is and how we have begun to look at it. I've followed this thread and the FFXIAH one extensively as I lvled RUN and ... everything just feels wrong about it. The way it's being looked at and interpreted, it's place in the end game, it all just feels off.

I see so many posts about how to increase damage and TP sets and weapons and subjobs and all I can think is... why? What does trying to push RUN's damage to the max really accomplish for it in regards to end game niche? I've never seen anyone complain about a WHM not have a good MAB set to maximize Banish/Holy damage during times of not healing, cause WHM has always held a certain niche in the end game and everyone understood it. Maybe we have become so accustomed to the zerg-fest DD+Healers setup that we're trying too hard to adapt RUN to our thinking instead of changing our thinking to incorporate RUN to it's full potential.

I know right now all we have to play with is Reives and obviously those can be accomplished with minimal effort, but perhaps the more challenging stuff will bring on a different perspective of RUN.

What about something like a serious, no messing around super tank. The closest you can get to being a legit turtle whose sole purpose is to just stand there and get whacked on? Rocking full Dux set, twilight torque, and some dark rings, which are all SUPER cheap and not even optimal -DT% pieces, a RUN can achieve -31% DT. Can we use the Magian elemental trial weapons? If so instead of a STR one where we get a little bit more dps why not rock a -13% DT one? Bam you're at -44% DT with minimal effort. We've all become used to DPS= holding hate but it appears that RUN has plenty of tricks to keep hate on himself without the need for DPS. RUN Has very decent Evasion, awesome Parry, and Godly Magic defense. I think I read somewhere that RUN with capped Parry is something like 36% Parry rate? If that's so isn't that a straight -36% DT?

SO if we can hold hate without the need for dps why not go full balls to the wall super turtle and throw dps out the window? We could still have the best WS set we can put together, so our Resolution damage would be no different. And, we could rock the best MAB gear we can get our hands on for some sick Lunges. All we're really losing is getting to our half-assed resolution 15-30 seconds faster and instead of white hits hitting for 200 (random guess) they are hitting for 140. Our runes are adding very nice dps to us already, if our white hits are doing 160 dmg and our runes are giving +40 dmg that's a 25% increase. Is it really THAT important that we add some extra dps when it looks like end game fights arn't going to be lawl 1 minute dps fest anymore. More like 30 minute survival fests.

Judging off the Colonization thread, page 44, a little down the page a party has attempted Colkhab and with a party of 6, with Colkhab only taking 75% dmg, the party was only able to damage it 7% after 90 minutes. Even if he was taking 100% damage, they still would have only done 28% damage after an hour and a half. Even if you added 3 more similar parties which would again multiply the damage x4 it would still take those 4 parties about an hour and 15 min or so to down this thing. I know maybe we are all weak right now and everything is super hard until we get new gear but that's all a ways off. What does a RUN HONESTLY bring to a party in a situation like this if we are just rocking TP sets and trying to DD as much as possible. A half-assed DD that maybe can take a few extra spells, but if the mob turns and hits him with physical he goes down? How is that even needed? Why would anyone bring that to the PT over a full blown DD? BUT! What if you were able to stack as much -DT% and -MDT% as possible, coupled with /war for defender and voke, and sit there and take the brunt of the force with a couple whms at your back?

I know it's late and I've ranted a bit but this was all running around in my mind for the last couple days. If this all sounds like crap and I'm completely off base then please ( And I mean this completely honestly) please tell me why this wouldn't work so I can put my mind at ease. I HAVE A DREAM! And it's to not be like every...single...other..DD... in the game... Maybe RUN is the hero Vana'diel deserves, and hopefully he's the one it needs right now.

[Seha]

Good thing we can swap in pdt and mdt when necessary instead of fulltiming them.

[chichicha]

You can have 51% PDT- without Defending Ring.
I haven't looked at MDB, since I have full faith that RUN has good enough MDB themselves.

[Taim Meich]

I think I read somewhere that RUN with capped Parry is something like 36% Parry rate?

Yes, against, omg... Level 0 mandies in Saruta! Against normal mobs in Adoulin it's around 18%, which is definitely nice but not the shield-caliber extra protection RUN needs to actually tank.

And btw, considering my previous 33% parry parse on lv 0 mobs, my actual (ongoing) parse of 18% parry on Adoulin mobs... Inquartata bonus at 99 may very well be 13%. It would fit quite nicely to 20% (cap) + 13%, and 5% (floor) + 13%. As a disclaimer, I've been doing the Adoulin parses with not capped parry rate, but unless the skill got changed, that won't matter at all and RUN will still have a base floored 5% parry rate against any worthwhile target.

[Darthmaull]

I understand that we are giving information on RUN but what gets me is that some people are posting information as fact but they do not have their skills capped. I read a few replies up that rune en-spells were crap but then was later refuted with other people of getting 34-40 per en-spell. Me personally I'm getting 38-44 a hit. Does GS skill have anything to do with it? Also the parry rate. How can you speak on capped parry rate and then in the same reply say that your parry rate is not capped. I was skilling up parry for a few hours last night and I noticed that it seemed to improve once I hit 370. I started at 180. This was on the mandies in Aby Altep. I'm just having issues with some of the stuff being posted as truth to not be the case for me in game.

[Taim Meich]

I understand that we are giving information on RUN but what gets me is that some people are posting information as fact but they do not have their skills capped. I read a few replies up that rune en-spells were crap but then was later refuted with other people of getting 34-40 per en-spell. Me personally I'm getting 38-44 a hit. Does GS skill have anything to do with it? Also the parry rate. How can you speak on capped parry rate and then in the same reply say that your parry rate is not capped. I was skilling up parry for a few hours last night and I noticed that it seemed to improve once I hit 370. I started at 180. This was on the mandies in Aby Altep. I'm just having issues with some of the stuff being posted as truth to not be the case for me in game.

That is, because, just so you know, at least up until this very expansion, capped parry skill meant the same as capped guard skill on EM+ monsters: N-O-T-H-I-N-G. You could have 0 skill and still get the same base 5% parry/guard rate. I'm working with the assumption that this remains the same, but I will do parses with capped parry rate when I cap it (soon).