Rune Fencer Findings

[Sayzar]

I know that's why I specified actual tank situations vs the throw everything at it ones. In which case get a real DD. But SE has said they want to move away from that and indeed have already started taking steps to do so.

Do you think they will be able to outdate/nerf zerging?

[Toth]

Also, RUNs are probably designed to excel in Seekers content, seeing as all the major NMs have specific elemental properties.

[chichicha]

I have been tanking with using Tacos, Embolden Protectra V.
I get defense around 900+ with my TP gears set.
(Not to mention, /BLU for Cocoon, you get up to somewhere around 1.3k def.)
Mobs hitting me around 40-70, without Phalanx. I don't see my -PDT gears is necessary to mitigate these dmg taken.
If I can use my TP gear, with minimal support from back line jobs, then I would go all out with my TP gears and WS gears. Dealing more DMG = kill it faster. I have less dmg to take, for a long term time wise. And we are GS A+ skill. Why we want to waste this ?

Above is my personal play-style, of course, you have yours

Best Defense is best offense.
Just my 2 cents ^.^

[chichicha]

^ This. Lol, I don't care if people make fun of PUP, I still enjoyed leveling it.

I enjoyed playing PUP too ^.^
Always dream of a pair of KKK too

[Sayzar]

I enjoyed playing PUP too ^.^
Always dream of a pair of KKK too

Don't we all... KKK is the only reason I feel that if RUN got a 4th slot to harbor a rune it would be on a Mythic.

[Dotsudoku]

Can we stop with the lolPUP please....

PUP, if anything, shows that no matter how bad a job is at release, future updates will eventually make that job infinitely more useful and awesome.

I adore PUP, but it's still useless. Don't kid yourself.

It's a second rate soloist and virtually unplayable for the game's more difficult content, which I've shown pretty empirically based on accuracy issues alone.

Edit: With KKK- without is even worse

[Seha]

Can we stop with the lolPUP please....

PUP, if anything, shows that no matter how bad a job is at release, future updates will eventually make that job infinitely more useful and awesome.

Awesome, sure. Useful...not really.

[agerknux]

I have been tanking with using Tacos, Embolden Protectra V.
I get defense around 900+ with my TP gears set.
(Not to mention, /BLU for Cocoon, you get up to somewhere around 1.3k def.)
Mobs hitting me around 40-70, without Phalanx. I don't see my -PDT gears is necessary to mitigate these dmg taken.
If I can use my TP gear, with minimal support from back line jobs, then I would go all out with my TP gears and WS gears. Dealing more DMG = kill it faster. I have less dmg to take, for a long term time wise. And we are GS A+ skill. Why we want to waste this ?

Above is my personal play-style, of course, you have yours

Best Defense is best offense.
Just my 2 cents ^.^

What mobs were you fighting though?

Also regarding pup. I love the job, but as much damage it can put out, it still does not beat the 2h jobs and brings no utility, yet.

For most of abyssea and VW, a spot would be better left to a job that can scale better with attack buffs or someone who could proc.

[Toth]

I adore PUP, but it's still useless. Don't kid yourself.

It's a second rate soloist and virtually unplayable for the game's more difficult content, which I've shown pretty empirically based on accuracy issues alone.

Edit: With KKK- without is even worse

I can solo VTs with PUP, not sure why it is second rate. As for DD potential, actually put PUP in a DD party with buffs and you will see quite a difference. PUP is not designed to overtake 2 handers but honestly, any competent player will be able to hold their own.

[Raelia]

Thought I'd wandered into a PUP thread.

Catching up on a day or two, forgive me if someone jumped on the same horse already:

I would like a ja similar to No foot rise for runes. Would make Gambit/Lunge even better.

I think you mean more like Presto, so you could still pick which rune you wanted a stack of.

I could see something like this in T2 Merits like: "The next Rune Enchantment you use grants 3 Runes instead of 1."

So yeah something like this.

I don't think that is too farfetched. Perhaps Rasp/Shock/Drown etc would make perfect sense. Or perhaps even a stat modifier depending on the rune (Fire=Str, Thunder=Dex, Wind=Agi, etc) Maybe +5 per rune, I couldn't see that being overpowered.

Good reuse of existing effects. Giving stats for having runes up would ruin the idea of picking runes for resistances instead though. Someone covered this.

I don't think it would be hugely infringing on DRK's capabilities anyway. They would still have Desperate Blows which would make a larger difference between the two jobs DD wise.

Until Last Resort is changed to 15% JA haste naturally/subbed maybe, but RUN will never squeeze on real DDs unless it's a mob that is hugely physical resistant, and then it'll never squeeze on magical DDs either.

Not to mention the OAT Trial GSWD.

This is definitely the thing I'm most burned about. You build a job around on-hit effects, taking away a potential multihit weapon (OAT or 2-4) neuters them. This would be like releasing RDM in the 75 era without it being on Joyeuse.

Maybe even a stance that "Changes physical damage recieved into Elemental Damage based on Runes harbored"?

I like this, but with a chance to consume a rune, would be very effective and properly utilize Rune Enhancement's short cooldown.

I would say a work in progress and heavily dependent on what future content is released (or unlocked).

Yeah, I'm in this boat right now. The job is still fairly good without any of the Merit Categories, R/M/E weapons, AF/Relic/Empy gear, or perfectly understood mechanics that other jobs enjoy though.

[Dotsudoku]

I can solo VTs with PUP, not sure why it is second rate. As for DD potential, actually put PUP in a DD party with buffs and you will see quite a difference. PUP is not designed to overtake 2 handers but honestly, any competent player will be able to hold their own.

A PUP in a nearly perfect DD party is in leagues with good WHM/NINs, and can't cap accuracy on the hard content without sushi.

PUP is fun -love the job- but that doesn't make it a good job. Just stop.

[Dotsudoku]

Until Last Resort is changed to 15% JA haste naturally/subbed maybe, but RUN will never squeeze on real DDs unless it's a mob that is hugely physical resistant, and then it'll never squeeze on magical DDs either..

Seemed like it would have reasonable enough potential with some way to tremendously boost attack, very akin to the boat DRG is in '~'

[agerknux]

Once the JA haste on LR is made I'll be really excited to try Run/Drk. They get attack speed and attack combined with utility such as stun/Weapon Bash, Attack bonus and Resist Paralyze JT and Souleater as a hate tool. Run/Drk will definitely been a potential viable choice, but in no ways will ever get to Top DD status with just Lunge and En-spell as a native way to add damage.

[Dotsudoku]

Kinda' counterproductive to their supposed tanking role, though.

[Jem]

Got to remember it's going to be significantly weaker than DRK's Last Resort/Desperate Blows too.

DRK's version - 25% Attack, 25% JA Haste, 72% Uptime
Subbed version - 15% Attack, 15% JA Haste, 60% Uptime

Those 2 minutes of downtime are going to be very painful DPS wise.

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, I can't see /drk being used besides zergs or for enmity mechanics.

[dasva]

Do you think they will be able to outdate/nerf zerging?

Nerf PD as hard as they did embrava without adjusting the AOEness and it would probably be forced over night along with lots of bitching lol. Of I can hear the screams of anguish of smns and DDs everywhere. And the en mass thuds as tanks have to learn how to tank again the hard way

[DragonCloud64]

A PUP in a nearly perfect DD party is in leagues with good WHM/NINs, and can't cap accuracy on the hard content without sushi.

PUP is fun -love the job- but that doesn't make it a good job. Just stop.

I wouldn't say it's on par with melee mages... it's not a second rate soloist, but with the recent enmity changes, any pet job soloing has gotten considerably worse.

And to keep on topic, I also saw that RUN has no healing ability outside of regen... why didn't they give RUN some cures since they wanted it to be on par with PLD?

[Raelia]

I think there was intent in using Embolden on Regens, and then some asshole changed it to a ten minute cooldown. There's a lot about that ability that just screams 'last minute crazy recast nerf'.

[chichicha]

What mobs were you fighting though?
.

T - VT in Cirdas Cavern while we try to farm Pyre Soul.