Rune Fencer Findings

**Martel** · 2013-08-18 23:38

I've been sitting on some of this for awhile now, intending to post when I had more complete testing. But it's starting to seem unlikely that I'll ever get around to it, so I'll just post what I've got.

Parrying
Data
Level 109 mobs.

Spoiler: show

Code:

Wep	Skill	Parry%	#hits
Terra's	432	13.62%	257
Beorc	545	13.76%	110
Senbaak	647	32.41%	1187

The first two samples are tiny so don't rely on those values.

Battuta
Duration 1:30. Recast 5:00. For some reason those haven't made it onto BGwiki.

With 4/5 Battuta Merits.
Battuta Data

Spoiler: show

These samples are tiny so keep that in mind when considering the parry rates. But until I un-lazy/have more time, they're what we've got.

Code:

Wep	Skill	Parry%	Gain    #hits
Terra's	432	62.91%	+49.29%	151
Senbaak	647	80.18%	+47.77%	217

Battuta is, rather badass.

So, if I get +4% parry per additional merit, and got +47.77%(let's call it 48% for simplicity) at 4/5 merits then battuta's base increase should be +36% parry. Assuming it's a flat increase and not based on skill or anything. Don't think there's really enough data to say.

Too bad the duration/recast suck. You're almost untouchable while Battuta's up, even super tanking. Then once it's off you get shredded for the next 3:30. There's swordplay to use after Battuta is down, but it's really not all that potent.

Note:I never tried using battuta with only 1~2 runes up. No idea if that has any effect on parry rates.

Battuta "counters"
Or more accurately, Battuta spikes. Seeing as that's how they appear in the log. And that's a far better way of thinking of them. Counters are physical dmg(barring formless/Twilight, etc) Battuta Spikes are magic damage of a rune dependent element.

So, some misc notes on battuta spikes, but nothing in depth.

-Magic DMG, Element based on runes.
-Affected by Day/weather, Affinity/ele staves, and MAB(calc'd on hit, not cast. Much like spikes spells.)
-Subject to resists. M.ACC may depend either on mainhand combat skill or parry skill. I got notably more resists when using a terra's staff(unda runes). But not floored resist rate, despite RUN's lack of any staff skill. This may point towards parry skill being the active skill.

I couldn't find anything that seemed to affect base spikes dmg. Changing base attributes(both on cast and on hit), and using weps of differing base dmg had no effect on base spikes dmg.

I did not try using 1~2 runes. All tests were with 3 runes. I suspect that may affect base spikes dmg.

I was going to post the parse data for spikes dmg, but for some reason the offense details section shows nothing. I think the total #spikes and avg dmg is pretty worthless for actually figuring anything out about this.

Swordplay Evasion

I had to go test this on 107 mobs, since the 109's were flooring my evasion. <,<;;

Data

Spoiler: show

Code:

base	swordplay difference
23.81	35.73      11.92

So, about +12% evade rate from using swordplay. Or +24 evasion. But +24 is a kinda weird number, so I'd be inclined to think it's actually +25.

I've only tested the evasion+ atm, but I'd suspect that acc+ mirrors it.

Misc
some misc. stuff, mostly for the wiki

Valiance AoE range, 8.0
One for All AoE range, 10.0

Runeist Coat - Valiance/Vallation duration + 15 seconds. Likewise increases the inspiration fast cast buff duration. I haven't tested for potency changes.

**Toth** · 2013-08-19 19:45

RUN seems like its abilities would help so much on delve mega bosses. Why haven't they been more embraced?

**Dotsudoku** · 2013-08-19 19:48

It does dickall for Tojil and Muyingwa. I've heard a compelling enough argument for Dakuwaqa, but even in the most favorable cases, it's quite a stretch from necessary

**dasva** · 2013-08-19 21:21

one of runs major flaws is dispel. I mean imagine if aegis could get dispelled and you had to wait 3 minutes to put it back up lol. If you accidentally take down tojils aura bam

**Kyte** · 2013-08-19 23:04

Failing to stun stasis is a pretty poor example of why RUN is not very good in Morimar, lol

**dasva** · 2013-08-19 23:07

Normally true... but seeing as RUN's strenghts are only pertinent when stuff is getting thru stun. I mean if you are stunning everything what is the point of RUN?

**Raelia** · 2013-08-19 23:14

Originally Posted by Toth

RUN seems like its abilities would help so much on delve mega bosses. Why haven't they been more embraced?

Because SE released a magic tanking job and nothing but AoE-Physical spamming bosses.

Oh sure they have elemental themes, but less than a quarter of their damage tends to be magical.

**Kyte** · 2013-08-20 01:19

Originally Posted by dasva

Normally true... but seeing as RUN's strenghts are only pertinent when stuff is getting thru stun. I mean if you are stunning everything what is the point of RUN?

If you want to use a dispel example, use Geist Wall.

**fantasticdan** · 2013-08-20 01:41

How are RUNs buffs are relevant against the tarichuk whether they're dispelled or not? If you silence it, it obviously doesn't cast, and if you don't silence it, it casts in multiple (all 6?) elements.

That is pretty funny vs tojil thou. RUNs defenses are only useful if you're failing on stun, but if you're failing on stun your defenses are also going to get dispelled, lol.

**Kyte** · 2013-08-20 02:41

They aren't really from a defensive point of view, but you do lose DPS as well from getting your runes dispelled. You know, if you theoretically have someone dicking around on RUN there.

**Sechs** · 2013-08-20 02:48

Fine for Valiance and all the rest, but can runes be dispelled too?
They should make at least those undispellable.

**Seha** · 2013-08-20 03:45

They can be dispelled individually(each counts as a single buff).

**Sechs** · 2013-08-20 03:55

Am I wrong in thinking PUP Maneuvers cannot be dispelled?
Been a long time since I fought some dispelling mob on PUP but I seem to remember they weren't?
Same for finishing moves on DNC and Grimoire on SCH. Bet there's something else too.

In my opinion many of this kind of buffs should never be dispellable. They are job-defining abilities sometimes, and you need to use them strategically kinda like "stances" in other MMOs, Dispelga or Dispel should not affect them.

**Hitou** · 2013-08-20 06:35

afaik, the only stuff that can't get dispelled is RR and embrava, maneuvers can get dispelled. I think you're right on finishing moves and light/dark arts as I don't recall those ever getting dispelled. RUN in generally seems to have a large lack of forethought. I mean it's their own game, you'd think it'd be possible to design "Tank" jobs and actually give them the ability to tank things.

Unless they start adding crap that spams single element magic damage, that can't be stunned, and doesn't hit very hard physically, RUN has no advantage over any DD in a PDT/MDT set. And certainly nothing over an Aegis PLD.

**Sechs** · 2013-08-20 07:25

I think there are more abilities that can't be dispelled, I don't remember which but I seem to recall there being others.
WHM's afflatus?
This doesn't change the fact that if you design a certain ability ("stance") to specialize a single job into multiple roles and define that ability as "vital" then you cannot make it dispellable in any fucking way.
Like the idea they probably had in the beginning when they designed Innin and Yonin for NIN (ok it didn't work, but that's another story...). How can you make it so it can be dispelled when you want it to be a vital JA NIN can use to swap between Tank and DD roles?
I mean, go tell that to a Protection Warrior in WoW, that their Defensive Stance can be dispelled by a monster.
Or to a Death Knight, go tell them that a mob can magically switch them from Blood Presence to Frost Presence xD

The concept of "stances" is an awesome instrument for a game designer to balance different roles of a single class, but they really made a very weak use of it in FFXI so far. It could have so much potential and solve so many issues... sigh.

Originally Posted by Hitou

RUN has no advantage over any DD in a PDT/MDT set.

I'd change that "no advantage" to "little advantage", because there clearly is a difference imho.
We can discuss this being perhaps too small, and that it comes at the cost of the fact RUN likely does less DPS than most other DD jobs in the game, but there *IS* a difference, as small as it may be.

I do agree with the general meaning of your post though, they really rushed into creating a job without much forethought.
Playing devil's advocate for a second now, it has to be said that imho in a game like FFXI it's gonna be hard to add new tank jobs.
First they'd need to make tanks relevant again, in general, without making it uberly annoying for DDs (Remember when VW first came out? Hahava, Celaeno and Voidwrought?). This alone is no easy task.
Then they'd need to make tanks OTHER THAN PLD relevant again. And when you make PLD such a powerhouse not only against physical damage (like they say they wanted to do) but against magical damage too (hello Aegis!) it's gonna be hard to create other tanks that *work*.

I also have the impression that too much of the PLD's real tanking relies on specific items whereas in other games the "core stuff" is all inside Job Abilities and Job Traits.
I dunno, maybe it's me, but as much as I love FFXI I always found the way it handles tanking (compared to other MMOs) very "strange" and blurry for several reasons I won't go into, but I think that plays a big part in the scenario where many DDs can magically turn into tanks under certain (many!) conditions or that you don't need a tank at all for most stuff.
Of course it's hard to make tanks useful (even worse to design other different tanks) in a world like this.

**Raelia** · 2013-08-20 07:44

The problem with RUN is that it can give zero fucks against just about anything beyond level 99 for 90 seconds... and then it's dead because Battuta wore off. It has amazing self-buffs, but the durations are haphazard. RUN currently has the equivalent of Sentinel, Rampart, Reprisal and whatnot, but it's like whoever was behind it thought those were what made PLD a tank and completely derped about what a Shield is.

If Parrying was reworked to be like Shield Blocks and Guard, and blocked more damage with a higher weapon delay (much like shield sizes) and had a much higher rate outside of Battuta... Then RUN could do some cool stuff, especially with a Mythic or whatever that seriously enhanced parry rate. Would be good for a lot of jobs really, like DRK for some reason having Tactical Parry.

**Sechs** · 2013-08-20 07:50

Originally Posted by Raelia

especially with a Mythic

Imho this is a wrong way of thinking induced by years of bad in-game implementations.
I want to see strong and hard-to-obtain items making certain jobs more powerful or useful in different ways.
I don't wan't to see such items making a certain job VIABLE, otherwise it sucks.

I know it's not what probably the majority things in here, but if a job needs to be fixed then you have to fix the job, not release an item that tries to fix the real issues, especially if that item requires you to be an hardcore geek to be obtained.
Nothing against harcore geeks, but fix the damn job *normally* please!

Another silly vanilla-wow example.
A Protection Warrior in WoW was still a tank, even without Thunderfury, and it worked nice and it required skillful use of cooldowns, abilities and blahblah.
But the job worked even without Thunderfury. It's just an item that made the job better (MUCH better), but it was perfectly useable in ALL situation even without it without major consequences for your group.
This is because when something didn't work, Blizzard tried to fix/change THE JOB, not THE ITEM.

**Raelia** · 2013-08-20 07:54

I meant that a Parry change would make it viable, trying to pick out those 501 delay greatswords and also helping find a 5-hit, and a Mythic would make it 'OMG WTF' in the sense of what it('s supposed to do/)does for a melee.

**kenshyn** · 2013-08-20 08:06

Anyone ever use run at tojil I wonder if a Run can with stand the spikes?

**Cairthenn** · 2013-08-20 08:28

That's up there with one of the most useless posts I've ever seen. Try a bit harder next time.

Thread: Rune Fencer Findings

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Parrying, Battuta, and Swordplay. + some misc.

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