Rune Fencer Findings

[Darkmagi]

Hurkan will most surely first be killed by aegis PLDs and rangers. I could see a RUN being needed for melee strategy though.

[dasva]

Also, I have a suspicion that people are going to need Rune Fencers for the future Marjami Ravine Fracture. People get away with /RUN in Foret purely because of the enspell damage on the Shark but when you're facing Hurkan's Delve equivalent, which I highly suspect is going to be 100% Stun immune, you will need Vallation and Valiance to survive.

The problem with this is if you really need vallaition/valiance to survive you are basically going to need 2+ runs in each melee pt just to keep everyone alive by keeping those buffs up normally. And Hurkan has dispel moves so even then it's gunna go down with just 2 so basically you'd need run burn pts to actually keep 1 or the other up all time on all DDs... considering how dependent the job is on those 2 moves they really need to make them not so easily dispelled... I mean it would be like if half the mobs in the game could take of a plds aegis for a couple of minutes over and over lol

[Darkmagi]

Don't forget random deal and wild card though, you could make 1 RUN work pending on fight length.

[dasva]

Hmmm does random deal treat wards as both more than 1 ja and 2 at the same time kinda like qd charges? Ie 100% chance to reset and resets all within? Still have to deal with Hurkaans and other mobs dispel. Why they made a ja buff that is so integral to how the job works not harder to dispel I have no idea

[Malithar]

Clueless how Run works and the potency of the runes, but if Dispel was such a major issue, could you use 1 dark rune and 2 thunder runes? Would that help avoid the dispel issue at all? Dunno how much meva/resist runes/assorted JAs give.

[dasva]

Might help the run but not everyone else lol

[Sechs]

Eddy Necklace vs Prudence Torque vs somethingelseImayhaveforgot

Which of these wins for Lunge? Anybody tested/calculated it?

[dasva]

Off the top of my head I'm going to say Eddy but the lunge formula was posted like 40 pages ago so can always just math it out with your skill/gear

"Damage appears to be based on weapon skill, number of runes, and typical Magic multiplier terms. The proposed formula for each hit is: Single Hit Damage = ( Main-hand weapon Skill × (0.5 + Number of Runes × 0.25) ) × Magic Multiplier Terms
You get one hit per Rune expended, but if you kill the monster with two hits then you keep your third Rune.
Treated like an Elemental Magic damage source (can MB, subject to day/weather boosts, etc.)"

[Fwahm]

Assuming Senbaak Nagan and 8 GSD merits, Prudence Torque is +1.1% damage.

You'd need about 1000 MAB before Eddy Necklace gives that low of a boost.

[Sechs]

Does the +skill they recently added on weapons actually gets counted for Lunge? With the fact you don't see it in the menu I always wonder stuff like that.
Either way, thanks for the post guys. I had a hunch Eddy was going to be better, thanks

[Prothescar]

yes the skill on senbaak/halachuinic/etc affects lunge

[Taim Meich]

yes the skill on senbaak/halachuinic/etc affects lunge

It does? Maybe it's a change of the last version update, since someone tested it WAR/RUN with Ixtab and it didn't add any damage.

[Sechs]

Simple yet dumb question:
Beorc Sword vs Crobaci +1 (average augment, let's say +15 damage?) vs Bereaver (R15)

I got the impression Crobaci+1,even with such a shitty augment, should win? How much +damage do you need at least for Crobaci+1 to win over Bereaver?
Does it win no matter what, or only when you can reach an X-hit build thanks to the weapon's higher natural delay?
Also, despite the latter two swords lacking +mab, they should still produce better Lunge results compared to Beorc Sword thanks to the higher base damage and higher GSWD skill, correct?

From my calculations this is what I got for a 501 delay GSWD

• 5Hit - Requires at least 48 STP. Even with SAM sub I can't seem to get over 44 STP without unreasonable gear sacrifices (and 44 itself already requires a lot of compromises), so this kinda seems out of the box for now, if we exclude food and additional buffs
• 6Hit - At least 23 STP needed. Reaching 23 without /SAM is totally possible but requires some mild sacrifices (K'ayres instead of Epona or Goading instead of Windbuffet, I guess?). If you go /SAM with Rajas + 2 earrings + asperity you're at 25 STP already, freeing up ring, waist, legs and ammo slots.

I suppose to this day /SAM should still be the best option for RUN if you're trying to maximize your DPS?
And /NIN if you're trying to solo or loltank for lowmen stuff? (since the huge Fastcast through gear and merits makes recasting utsusemi particularly efficient)

[Sechs]

Trying to reply to myself after doing some tests in the spreadsheet, still need some input from more competent people though.


No /SAM
You need 23 STP to 6hit Crobaci+1, which means you'll be forced to rely on Iuitl Legs, Goading and Hagneia (in addition to the standard Rajas, 2x Earring and Asperity). From my Tests Goading+Epona > Windbuffet+K'ayres.
With such a setup, you need at least +25 Damage on Crobaci +1 to be better than a R15 Bereaver (without Xhit build). Of course this is not taking into consideration other possible augments (STR+, DA+ etc). For instance with STR+7/DA+1 you'd only need DMG+16, and with STR+5 you'd only need +20
Using the same setup (STP+23) on Bereaver would grant you a 7hit, but as far as I can tell from the spreadsheet this actually doesn't produce any noticeable advantages (it might if you have DA+2 on Iuitl Legs, I suppose, in which case you'd probably be TPing with them no matter what)


/SAM subjob
With sam SJ you have 15 more STP. Basically you auto6hit with Crobaci+1 and auto7hit with Bereaver.
Wih this setup Crobaci needs at least +23DMG, or +16DMG/7STR/1%DA or +19DMG/5STR etc.

All these tests have been performed with no external buffs on delve fodder target. Tried again with Marchx2, Minux2, Haste and didn't see any noticeable difference, the results are overall the same.
Gearset used are the following

Normal Setup
Weapon / Pole / --- / Thew
Iuitl / Aspe /Blade / Steel
Thaum / Iuitl / Epona / Rajas
Atheling / Wind / Mani / Mani

STP +23 Setup
Weapon / Pole / --- / Thew
Iuitl / Aspe / Blade / Steel
Thaum / Iuitl / Epona / Rajas
Atheling / Goading / Iuitl / Mani

Manibozho is R15 STR
Iuitl has no DA augments.


Conclusions:
For Crobaci+1 to be better than a R15 STR Bereaver you need a 6hit setup and at least +20DMG

[Sechs]

I'd love someone more competent than me to spot errors in my previous (and very short/superficial) analysis

[chichicha]

Trying to find this deep buried in threads lolz
I'm wondering what have you RUN done tanking on what NMs and etc...

[Karizo]

Trying to find this deep buried in threads lolz
I'm wondering what have you RUN done tanking on what NMs and etc...

I ran with a RUN on AAMR Normal the other day. My conclusion is, it's doable but obviously much more difficult. Their spell Foil works wonders on things like Rampage, but the moment it drops (should be able to keep it up full time, but should it drop), Rampage will potentially 1 shot RUNs. Granted, he wasn't extremely geared. As for Cloudsplitter, I doubt it would be an issue with the right runes up. Overall, I think their enmity generation is even less than that of a PLD, or perhaps the RUN just wasn't as geared; but in the end, both tanking classes have similar issues with enmity if you're not running with Annihilator RNGs. RUN takes more damage overall as well, but not unreasonable for AAs on normal (WHM actually has to do something). It's not going to widely used in PUGs for sure, but I bet there are static groups out there using it.

[dasva]

Run has the best hate tools in the game... but they also bleed out enmity more than a pld

[chichicha]

So their parrying skill isn't helping with Inspiration as in tanking?

[Martel]

Run has the best hate tools in the game... but they also bleed out enmity more than a pld

Pretty much this. Also, RUN's access to Enmity+ gear sucks. And they lack Enmity+ on high Ilvl PDT/DT gear, so they can't mitigate the CE loss nearly as much as PLD can.