Attack and Defence update

[Alistaire]

So thanks to the enmity update, Armed Gears is a really fun fight...and by fun I mean, fucking dumb as shit. Not that it was ever anything else due to its fucking stupid "lets draw the fight out as long as possible" mechanics...but keeping hate dealing 5-9 dmg per non-crit dagger strike and 8-16 non-crit punch, keeping hate is a breeze...

I bet sandworm Arthro is "fun" like that too.

[Taim Meich]

The fuck is wrong with you dude? You do realize how shit upon SMN is right? I mean hell, for as bad as RDM is doing right now at least they had some time in the sun. What did we ever have besides a brief period where we were Alexander whores? And guess what got taken away?

I'm guessing you have never played SMN, or never had a job you enjoy smacked down over and over again. There is no god damn reason for Avatars and pets in general not to be able to hold any hate. For you to think otherwise proves what a massive tool you are. Get over yourself.

The forms could be other, but the message is valid: Don't complain about the enmity changes, complain about the shitty avatar damage. If they manage to increase avatar damage enough that your "doing nothing until BP timer is up" can't pull hate for them, it will be doubly benefitial to you: more damage, no aggro.

[Tarage]

The forms could be other, but the message is valid: Don't complain about the enmity changes, complain about the shitty avatar damage. If they manage to increase avatar damage enough that your "doing nothing until BP timer is up" can't pull hate for them, it will be doubly benefitial to you: more damage, no aggro.

You are missing the point. SMN doesn't have much to begin with. It's all well and good to say "Hey, fix SMN", but given SE's track record of ignoring it, do you really think they will give us a complete overhaul like we deserve? I'd rather have a semi decent way of soloing than nothing at all. Stop treating it like an all or nothing thing. Fixing the enmity issue won't fix SMN, but it will stop it from being a completely dead job.

[Calintzpso]

The forms could be other, but the message is valid: Don't complain about the enmity changes, complain about the shitty avatar damage. If they manage to increase avatar damage enough that your "doing nothing until BP timer is up" can't pull hate for them, it will be doubly benefitial to you: more damage, no aggro.

Apparently you haven't heard. Spectral Jig is the new Super Voke.

Enmity system is very bugged at the moment. You can work with it, maybe, like my bst; dropping a ruinator followed by a snarl. Even then I might have to turn around for 5 rounds so by the next snarl I don't pull hate for to long.

But lets move away from that for a moment.

Charmed a few VT mobs in Rala, Found a nice one and 2 houred(pardon me, 1 houred), fought a tough with it. Let the mob attack to 90% or about 6 rounds of attack. I ran in and swung twice, I pulled hate, when clearly the charmed pet hit many times more then me and for about 45-55 more dmg a swing then me.

Back to the Spectral Jig, repeated the above, at 90-85% I decided to sneak up, cause the slimes were getting a little close and I wasn't even fighting. That Diremite became very pissed before the animation of jig finished.

I'm actually considering doing tests today as /war and /dnc to see which pulls more hate, the Jig or Voke. Cause if this is the case, just to hold hate on a evasion job/tanks, using Animated followed by Spectral might outshine a voke from other jobs.

Edit: Shooting a Video of the above to show ppl, and post on the official forums.

[Jem]

The fuck is wrong with you dude? You do realize how shit upon SMN is right? I mean hell, for as bad as RDM is doing right now at least they had some time in the sun. What did we ever have besides a brief period where we were Alexander whores? And guess what got taken away?

I'm guessing you have never played SMN, or never had a job you enjoy smacked down over and over again. There is no god damn reason for Avatars and pets in general not to be able to hold any hate. For you to think otherwise proves what a massive tool you are. Get over yourself.

Yes we realize how bad this makes SMN and how bad it always has been. That is not his point.

Several people have outlined why this is happening and that it is exactly what should happen based off the changes. Yet people keep complaining like a change was made specially to pets/avatars. Too many people just flat out don't understand how the enmity system works.

Yes I agree it's crappy for pet jobs and something needs to be changed. Yet I share Dotsu's sentiment of it being annoying as hell to watch the umpteenth BST/SMN posting to say 'Wtf this is happening! It makes no sense! It shouldn't after me from 1-2 swings when my pet has done blah blah!'. It's like people don't understand that it's possible to lose enmity faster than you can generate it so that's why the master pulls hate so easily once they do anything.

If anything though, this opens up the opportunity for pets for be boosted like people have said. Increasing their damage dealt would fix the issue and I believe at one point Byrth posted exactly what sort of change would be required.

[Hitou]

I'm all for SE fixing avatars to not utterly suck. Lower the stupid BP timer, raise their DPS somehow like double attack trait or something like martial arts for avatars so they don't swing once per minute. However this is a pipe dream. And job abilities are still going to pull hate off avatars even if they did have better DPS unless it was something crazy like 1k per swing. Because even real DD have a hard time keeping hate off mages now since buffs and na spells etc don't have lowered enmity levels. Melee can spam ja of their own and voke but an avatar has 0 hate tools besides damage, and as we all know, damage now gives 30% of it's original enmity.

So yeah, it would have to be a huuuuge leap in DPS for a smn not to pull hate with ja spam every 45s. I don't see this ever happening but here's hoping I guess.

[Fake]

Apparently you haven't heard. Spectral Jig is the new Super Voke.

Enmity system is very bugged at the moment.

No and no. The enmity system is working correctly. Job abilities still generate the same amount of hate as before the update, its just the fact that pets (avatars especially) have such terrible dps that they never make a net gain in VE and against anything that can damage them moderately well they never gain CE either.

Whether this was part of SE's intention or not remains to be seen, but the enmity system isn't broken.

[ccl]

. Because even real DD have a hard time keeping hate off mages

I have no issue holding hate from mage even solo tanking stuff like salvage boss(even shield hydra/dt cerb) or any NM indynamis xar even after TP move that put me in red/almost one shot.

[dasva]

Apparently you haven't heard. Spectral Jig is the new Super Voke.

Nope personally tested it to have the exact same enmity before which is 1/6 of voke. Also tested a slew of job abilties and spells and so far the only things that have changed were dmg dealt enmity at higher lvls and cure 1-5 enmity. Ya know like exactly what they said they changed

[Draylo]

So thanks to the enmity update, Armed Gears is a really fun fight...and by fun I mean, fucking dumb as shit. Not that it was ever anything else due to its fucking stupid "lets draw the fight out as long as possible" mechanics...but keeping hate dealing 5-9 dmg per non-crit dagger strike and 8-16 non-crit punch, keeping hate is a breeze...

Have you never used requiescat?

[Ophannus]

Pld is useful when you've only got 4 DDs and you want to get them all away from Odin before 50% to buff up/PD without the risk of full dispel but if you're taking more than that then the only thing its useful for is holding the last set of adds.

Our strat was to have Annihilator RNGs and CORs bring Odin down to 50% with a WAR and DRK tank Odin. The DD parties are on adds and shit and between adds were to just run in and WS. This strat worked well for our group dozens of times. Since the update, Odin's hate would bounce between the RNG and the WAR and DRK tanks, the DRK was able to hold hate more easily when he kept up with Stuns and use all his JAs. Just seemed really difficult to solidify hate without some solid CE. VE from voke/LR/Souleater diminishes over time and enmity from DDing supposedly accrues 70% less than before. Mages would pull hate from dropping buffs, -nas. When the DRK died and I ran in to backup tank(45% PDT + Shadow Mantle, 600ish defense), Odin was rocking me for high 200's with high 500's on crits when buffs fell.

[NynJa]

I bet sandworm Arthro is "fun" like that too.

I've been having a lot of "fun" with sedna too..




These enmity changes are fucking stupid, REALLY FUCKING STUPID. On top of the fact I cant proc the fucking thing (beyond its stupid "all I do is use TP moves" mechanic" because any time I cast a spell, it beelines for whatever mage. Dia2 pulling hate when the mobs at 80% is piss fucking poor design, RIGHT after an evisceration to top it off. Sorry, add in a cure5 in there, because cure5 is totally going to tip the scales.

AND YES I MAD

Have you never used requiescat?

Yeah, I'm going farm up 100 merits, just to do a fight 3 times and save myself 20 minutes Smart guy here

but judging from how my monk's formless strikes punches were landing for 15-25 instead of 10-15, which as far as I'm aware deliver the same damage type as Requiescat, I dont think thats the solution.

[Obsidian]

Stop bleeding your enmity away with your face then.

[vagus]

Stop bleeding your enmity away with your face then.

This! Some people truly don't know how to tank. Ah face tanking.

[Fake]

Look guys, if nynja says the hate system is broken then it must be broken, his track record of making relevant and well thought out posts is impeccable. If Abyssea (of all fucking places) isn't the place to benchmark any changes to game mechanics then I don't know where is.

Non sarcastic edit: Sedna also has a hate reset move/mechanic of some sort

[NynJa]

Stop bleeding your enmity away with your face then.

You can blink Aqua Blast? Because thats what you're telling me to do.
Look, I've tanked it the exact same way before and after, I'm aware it has a slight hate reset mechanic...but to that extent?

and Fake calling out "relevant and well thought out posts"? Mirror mirror on the wall, whos the biggest hypocrite of all?

[Helel]

but judging from how my monk's formless strikes punches were landing for 15-25 instead of 10-15, which as far as I'm aware deliver the same damage type as Requiescat, I dont think thats the solution.

Not disagreeing with the merit argument. I wouldn't merit it either just for 3 fights. I did want to point out however, that requiescat does do around 1500 to armed gears, so it is pretty effective. Fought him quite a few times for mythics.

[Karbuncle]

You can blink Aqua Blast?

CLEARLY YOU NEED TO LEVEL PLD TO 99 AND GET A 99 AEGIS YOU NOOB

[dasva]

CLEARLY YOU NEED TO LEVEL PLD TO 99 AND GET A 99 AEGIS YOU NOOB

water resist set

[NynJa]

Not disagreeing with the merit argument. I wouldn't merit it either just for 3 fights. I did want to point out however, that requiescat does do around 1500 to armed gears, so it is pretty effective. Fought him quite a few times for mythics.

Well then I'm mistaken on that...but I do know what my mnk's formless strikes punches were doing. Weird that Formless would barely dent it whereas requiescat will do full damage, since its supposed to be the same damage type.