Attack and Defence update

[Byrthnoth]

I think that was the point, though. They're trying to make it so that you can't effortlessly hold hate off your pet-or-mage anymore.

[Aramaic]

SE did make a post prior to update that healing magic at least was pulling more enmity than intended in Adoulin areas and that they would fix it at a later time.

[TheDangerousDave]

I kinda suspect that they also changed the Enmity related to pulling.

Yeah I feel like I'm getting more initial hate on stuff

[grevenilvec75]

I'm not sure if the pulling enmity was effected by +/- enmity before but aside from that I'm still getting 200 ce from pulls. That said I've now iced weird stuff happening sometimes during my enmity testing. Like I've had people not on the hate list at all pull hate... then after doing lots of self only stuff for hate unable to get it back.... ie clearly not on the hate list. Also tested that at the very least cures for 0, flash, stun, bind, blind, threnodies, paeons, and low lvl dmg have unchanged CE and look like same VE. That said I did this all on low lvl stuff. New stuff may have weird hate mechanics or messing with dmg enmity of higher lvls might have messed with other stuff. Various buffs seemed right to. I suspect also the dmg dealt enmity may be far more effective then we thought

New enmity update only applies if mob is lvl 51 or higher:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post407868

Enmity Adjustments
In regards to enmity, we will be performing the first stage of the content that was discussed previously. To start out, we will be making adjustments so that if the target is level 51 or above, the enmity generated in proportion to the damage dealt, and the enmity incurred in relation to the amount of HP cured, will be reduced. In the case that the target is above level 99, the amount of enmity generated will be reduced to 30% compared to before adjustment (the current level). We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.

While this isn't limited to enmity adjustments, we understand this is an element that we need to continuously follow and address, and I wanted to remind you that this would be the first step.

[Obsidian]

It's definitely a bit funky. I pull hate from Garuda sometimes just by using a bloodpact.

[Byrthnoth]

That's normal, though. Garuda has shit DPS and thus hemorrhages CE even with 50% PDT. VE from the BP damage is going to entirely decay over the 45 seconds between BPs unless your BPs do ~2500 damage (assuming 70% reduction in CE/VE). Activating a BP gives a pretty fair amount of VE to the summoner, though I doubt it gives much CE. The fact that your avatar pulls hate from BP activation is consistent with a 70% reduction in melee damage enmity. Additionally, your BPs are probably doing a little less damage due to the level correction adjustment (depending what you're fighting) and that isn't helping.

tl;dr: I don't see any real way for your avatar to accumulate enmity unless you're in a groups of summoners team tanking something that doesn't use much AoE damage.

[Intense]

I wonder how this will change farming in Abyssea as a BST. I am extremely casual now and am working on things at a slow pace and it'd suck to now have to spend time forming a PUG or dragging my LS to help me with mundane things that I was once able to do on my own...

[Ophannus]

Dunno bro, my wyvern hits for 80-120, shouldn't be rocking hate off me on fodder after I've dropped some testicle shattering 3k+ stardivers.

[Byrthnoth]

Come up with something less purely anecdotal or I'm just going to assume that your Gungnir has been Gunging.

I've seen three pet job comments in this thread. Two of them are complaining that their pets can't get hate while you're complaining that your pet gets too much hate.

[dasva]

New enmity update only applies if mob is lvl 51 or higher:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post407868

While true the update also says it only applies to enmity from dmg dealt and cures will be effected. Since that was always based on target lvl I'm guessing they just adjusted that multiplier. The other stuff I liker have no lvl component and aren't mentioned in the update. Would seem odd if they added a whole new calculation for things that were previously fixed on accident.

But now that I've finished mapping run enmity I suppose I can do some quick checks on some other stuff on higher lvls. Anything in particular people think is really broken?

[Dotsudoku]

Come up with something less purely anecdotal or I'm just going to assume that your Gungnir has been Gunging.

I've seen three pet job comments in this thread. Two of them are complaining that their pets can't get hate while you're complaining that your pet gets too much hate.

I'm experiencing similar results, but I think our friend is forgetting how jumps work. It isn't really anomalous.

[Buffy]

While true the update also says it only applies to enmity from dmg dealt and cures will be effected. Since that was always based on target lvl I'm guessing they just adjusted that multiplier. The other stuff I liker have no lvl component and aren't mentioned in the update. Would seem odd if they added a whole new calculation for things that were previously fixed on accident.

But now that I've finished mapping run enmity I suppose I can do some quick checks on some other stuff on higher lvls. Anything in particular people think is really broken?

I wanna know wtf is up with enhancing magic. Stoneskin, refresh, haste all seem like overly powerful hate tools.

[Guitarman]

Come up with something less purely anecdotal or I'm just going to assume that your Gungnir has been Gunging.

I've seen three pet job comments in this thread. Two of them are complaining that their pets can't get hate while you're complaining that your pet gets too much hate.

Backing up those pet jobs. I'll let my pet, either jug or charmed, beat on a mob for a looong time, but as soon as i swing my axe, the mob is beating on me. Even if i WS > snarl a jug the enmity i gave it decays much faster than before.

And it's hilarious/dumb how much enmity buffs give. spectral jig is a death sentence...

[fantasticdan]

Come up with something less purely anecdotal or I'm just going to assume that your Gungnir has been Gunging.

I've seen three pet job comments in this thread. Two of them are complaining that their pets can't get hate while you're complaining that your pet gets too much hate.

Well normally it would be easy to keep hate on a bst pet, or on yourself as a drg, so if enmity is suddenly more volatile and shifting between targets where it wouldn't have before, both jobs are going to notice it but they'd have opposite complaints.

[Byrthnoth]

Yes, neither a BST pet nor a dragoon can keep hate while being hit. They don't accumulate VE without buffs because they have crappy solo DPS and they lose whatever CE they gain. Their pets (or beastmasters) gain CE. Again, this was a predictable outcome of reducing damage enmity by 70%. If you want your pets to hold hate better, use pet PDT gear (so they lose less CE). If you want to hold hate better, use PDT gear or take less damage in some other way (like Seigan+3E). The fact that abilities, enhancing magic, etc. can pull hate now is not an unintended design flaw. This is what they were going for. Now if you do something, the monster pays attention to you. Before the abilities might as well all have had 0 CE/VE.

I mean, if the monsters were perfectly intelligent then they would kill whoever is the most useful to their opponent party first (and they'd weight it based on how vulnerable the targets were). That's basically in line with crushing mages/support jobs in many situations. They still don't do this, but the fact that monsters just got "smarter" was probably not unintended.

[dasva]

I wanna know wtf is up with enhancing magic. Stoneskin, refresh, haste all seem like overly powerful hate tools.

Didn't try stoneskin but refresh and haste that I cast during my testiny of other stuff appeared normal. I'll try it tonight on some abyssea and probably only do ce for them. That said this appears to be no sarcasm intended to be working as intended. Think in all our wanted enmity to be fixed we've forgotten how some of the brokenness has enabled or helped current play styles. I mean remember how good rdm/nin was at tanking? Almost feels as if they want something like that back despite the fact they nerfed it a few years ago.

Also in case anyone was thinking ve decays faster it doesn't. It's actually what I was using to narrow down te during testing run enmity. Which was good since my initial test of the 1hr I guessed 4k... if I just kept guessing would've taken forever but using the 60/sec worked like a charm since it took a little over a min and a half to lose hate and it ended being 9k te

[Foldypaws]

Yes, neither a BST pet nor a dragoon can keep hate while being hit.

I dunno, I've not noticed any problem keeping hate as a solo drg. I mean, sure the mob will swing at my pet *occasionally* now, whereas it wouldn't ever do it before, but 90% of the mobs swings are still at me. And I'm not generally using Seigan TE. (Healing Breaths keep me alive most of the time.)

[Ophannus]

Well it seemed like if I missed a few hits and was getting hit hard(120-180) from T-VT mobs, my Wyvern would nab hate off me, I guess due to that 70% decrease. Not crippling or annoying, it's actually beneficial in some ways since Wyverns have that 40% DT going for them so he actually takes htis better than I do. Wouldn't this hurt on jobs that rely almost purely on hate for tanking like SAMs and DRKs? Or rather would SAM and DRK tanks now need to rely more heavily on JAs and Spells now to tank?

[Guitarman]

Depends on how high their output is. It's definitely less forgiving. I did a test run of legion yesterday with 5 people, among them my apoc drk and my whm alt. I was dropping 2.5k catastrophe's pretty reliably, but my alt would take aggro after curebombing too much.

[Damane]

Depends on how high their output is. It's definitely less forgiving. I did a test run of legion yesterday with 5 people, among them my apoc drk and my whm alt. I was dropping 2.5k catastrophe's pretty reliably, but my alt would take aggro after curebombing too much.

Well legion definitly took a hit, if you drag the mob fights too long out your stunning SCHs will be hunt down by the mob merciless. Naraka comes to mind if in bad stance mode. and melees need to learn how to voke again, because if the first action of a SCH on a mob is stun your WS wont hold hate for shit on it ¬.¬