Do We Have A 'Silly Shit Politicians Say' Thread? If Not, Here We Are

[NynJa]

I didn't say anything about that?

What this woman is doing is the equivalent of if a man identified as a woman, went ahead and got a sex change and then claimed that actually she had physically been a female her whole life. That has nothing to do with when they felt they were in the wrong body.

Thats why I specifically asked the question the way I asked it. Why is it bad for this white woman to "dress and act black", but its perfectly acceptable for a man to "dress and act like a woman"? My original question specifically asked if the problem was her identifying as black, or her lying about her ancestry.

So let me get this straight...the problem here isnt "I identify as black", its her lying to others to convince herself of her black identification, right?

You're missing the point. It would be like Caitlyn Jenner trying to convince the world she was a woman by lying about her gender, and when her parents reveal she was born as Bruce Jenner she back pedals and calls them liars, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

This isn't about feeling comfortable in your skin. She was trying to game the system and failed.

Once again, I also asked if her "identifying as black" is seen as an issue, and Archi said yes...which once again I have to question why its okay for a man to "dress and act as a female" but its wrong for this white woman to "dress and act black"?

[Tyrath]

We both literally just explained it to you.

It's fine if thats what you identify with. You can say you have identified as such for however long you want. But you can't claim that you were physically born in that gender/race/whatever when you very clearly weren't.

Caitlyn Jenner identifying as a woman is great. But if she said she was actually born PHYSICALLY (not just identifying as) Caitlyn Jenner, we'd raise the same issues.

[archibaldcrane]

So if someone legitimately identifies as a member of their opposite sex, you have no problem with it.
But if someone legitimately identifies as a different race, you have a problem with it.

I don't know whether someone can "legitimately identify as a different race" - I don't really know what that means. A different culture? Of course. But identifying as a different race fundamentally changes the meaning of the word "race".

Transfolk aren't identifying as a different sex, they identify as a different gender. Our language confuses those things but they are distinct concepts.

I have little issue with someone saying "I identify strongly with (white / black / asian / whatever) culture", but saying you are a different race is a whole other deal.

[archibaldcrane]

I have to question why its okay for a man to "dress and act as a female" but its wrong for this white woman to "dress and act black"?

Do you understand the difference between sex and gender or not, because it's the crux of this confusion.

[zoobernut]

I don't know whether someone can "legitimately identify as a different race" - I don't really know what that means. A different culture? Of course. But identifying as a different race fundamentally changes the meaning of the word "race".

Transfolk aren't identifying as a different sex, they identify as a different gender. Our language confuses those things but they are distinct concepts.

I have little issue with someone saying "I identify strongly with (white / black / asian / whatever) culture", but saying you are a different race is a whole other deal.

What is the definition of race? Race is a non-scientific term and is ambiguous at best to begin with so it is hard to nail down what people mean by race. Generally in my experience people say race but what they really mean is skin color or culture or geographic location of origin but usually some combination of two of those.

[archibaldcrane]

What is the definition of race? Race is a non-scientific term and is ambiguous at best to begin with so it is hard to nail down what people mean by race.

Absolutely.

But we both know what it never means, and that is what this lady is doing.

[NynJa]

Absolutely.

But we both know what it never means, and that is what this lady is doing.

So youre doing today what people were alluding to about transgendered people before. Gg

[notorious bum]

It's excruciating watching this neocon talking point locked-in circular masturbation mode.


Discuss.

[Thunder]

I don't know if there's enough information to "do to this girl what's been done to trans people in the past"

Sex/gender debate was a big one a few years back and even if it's going to be the same with race/culture all we have atm (afaik) is one article where the girl doesn't answer a single question

I'm still uneasy about what's going on with this girl. She's done nothing but help the black communities (afaik from reading the article) but she's also gotten full scholarships on the premise of being a minority to Howard (she used photos of her in blackface, basically)

Idk about everyone else, but I think this sort of thing (transblack, transasian, transwhite) is going to become big news in the next few months/years and people are going to have a tougher time explaining it than transgendered people because despite everyone explaining it so 'matter-of-factly' here, I don't think any of it is the complete explanation. Asian woman getting melanin injections, eye plastic surgery, and hair transplants to look like a black woman is = to a man going through HRT and the necessary surgeries to become a woman? No sarcasm, but what about a short guy who feels tall and does those retardedly-painful leg extension surgeries? Or a "nerd" who says he feels like an athlete and wants hgh/steroids prescribed and paid for by insurance. Those latter two people I'd say have big self esteem issues and I'm inclined to say people who identify with another culture like this do too.. (obviously no issue with bum's pic above, or iggy azalea, or eminem, or whatever else... putting that up for discussion is missing the point, I think)

[kuronosan]

That is the point.

[archibaldcrane]

I really don't see transrace becoming a real thing.

I mean shit, weeaboos have been around for how long now? Is anyone really giving them credence as Asian-identifying? People who attempt to take it beyond "identifying with culture" are not going to get anywhere close to even transpeople-levels of acceptance (which is still not very)

[archibaldcrane]

So youre doing today what people were alluding to about transgendered people before. Gg

While I appreciate your feeble attempts at opening some sort of logic trap here, you are nowhere near equipped with the ability to do so.

So...GG i guess?

[zoobernut]

I really don't see transrace becoming a real thing.

I mean shit, weeaboos have been around for how long now? Is anyone really giving them credence as Asian-identifying? People who attempt to take it beyond "identifying with culture" are not going to get anywhere close to even transpeople-levels of acceptance (which is still not very)

You can't feel like you have dark skin but are stuck in a white skinned body what does that even mean? This feels like another way to dress up cultural appropriation to me.

[kuronosan]

Um. You can identify strongly with a culture regardless of skin color.

If you were white and grew up in Japan, does that make you less Japanese?

We aren't talking about how she identifies.

Now if you slit your eyes, lightened your skin, wore brown contacts, dyed your hair black, and lied about your ancestry so that you could take over Konami, then yes you are a shitpile if you try to claim your parents aren't really your parents and that you're content to live a lie.

[zoobernut]

Um. You can identify strongly with a culture regardless of skin color.

If you were white and grew up in Japan, does that make you less Japanese?

We aren't talking about how she identifies.

Now if you slit your eyes, lightened your skin, wore brown contacts, dyed your hair black, and lied about your ancestry so that you could take over Konami, then yes you are a shitpile if you try to claim your parents aren't really your parents and that you're content to live a lie.

We are talking about both things how she identifies and the fact that she did those other things and lied. One is terrible the other is just confused but my point is that I have seen a lot of people that confuse the two.

Also to the bold part yes at least in the USA generally speaking that does make you less Japanese. At least in my experience even if you grew up in a country and that countries culture is your culture if you don't fit the mold of what people think you should look like physically to fit in with that culture then they don't think you belong to that culture.

I don't agree with that.

[Thunder]

I can attest if you're a 1st generation immigrant in the US you are neither fully american or fully whatever place you came from. Americans will say you're x ethnicity 100% and those of your ethnicity will say you're 100% american. Even if it's something "white" like scottish, irish, polish, czech, ukranian, etcetcetctetctetectcet

It's a lonely life... if you give a shit about this sort of thing. I'll forever think anyone who spends time trying to identify which race/ethnicity they most closely identify with is retarded or has deep self esteem issues.

[Tyrath]

You guys are using nationality and ethnicity interchangeably. They are not the same.

[Thunder]

You guys are using nationality and ethnicity interchangeably. They are not the same.

Every nationality has its own culture ie its own ethnicity? Why aren't they the same, sans semantics

[Tyrath]

Every nationality has its own culture ie its own ethnicity? Why aren't they the same, sans semantics

Because they just don't mean the same thing.

Nationality is what country you are a citizen of, aka belong to. Ethnicity is based on the group you are descended from.

Ethnically I am Indian, because my family comes from there. Nothing can change this. Ever.

But my nationality is American. Even though I wasn't born here, I have become naturalized. At one point in my life, my nationality was also Indian because I was born there. This can change.

[Thunder]

if instead of using nationalities like "from poland" I said ancestors are all polish then it's all good?

sounds like semantics bro I think we all knew what me, zoob, and kuro meant when we started to use "from x" interchangeably with "descendants are all from x" because the latter is tedious